Paying for Social Care

Income tax. It is wrong that workers most of whom are poor would support wealthy pensioners. I do want to live in a society where kindness is a value.

Beau1958

I agree with Randy. Why should the higher earners pay more. My husband has worked so hard all his life never a weekend off for years and has never claimed a benefit in his life. The government take half his earnings, his business rates are horrendous. We have never had any help from the government.

There are plenty of people who work every weekend and aren't high earners.

Graduates earning the average (mean) wage will have 42% of their gross residual income deducted - and that's before any pension contributions, which will almost certainly take them over 50%.

I think that it’s not fair that someone who has worked hard and paid both NI and tax for 50 years, chose to have only 2 children, did without many things to enable to buy a house, should be subsidising feckless (poor) people who have never worked a day in their lives and have several children etc. As far as why should the young pay for us oldies, isnt that what we did?

I keep seeing mention of care home fees being around £1,000 a week.

A friend has just gone into respite care after being very ill with Covid.

She was quoted £1,800 per week at one home but chose another 'at only' £1,500 per week.

There won't be much left in anyone's inheritance after these sums are paid!

Yaiyai, poor people are not more "feckless " than rich people.

Rich people who are desperate to hang on to their wealth say poor people are feckless, but they would wouldn't they ! !

Wondered when Brexit was going to rear it's head again. True to form as usual.

Not all poor people are feckless and haven’t worked hard during their working lives. Too many generalisations is suspect. Of course I’d like to see my children having some kind of inheritance when I die, but it’s not their right. My money should pay for me and anything left would be theirs.

yaiyai

I think that it’s not fair that someone who has worked hard and paid both NI and tax for 50 years, chose to have only 2 children, did without many things to enable to buy a house, should be subsidising feckless (poor) people who have never worked a day in their lives and have several children etc. As far as why should the young pay for us oldies, isnt that what we did?

I've worked hard my whole life, as has DH, chose to have no children at all and expect to pay significant amounts of tax because I am better off than most people in this country.

I used to live in the "unmarried teenage mother" capital of Europe and hoped that my taxes would help them out of the hole they found themselves in, I didn't expect them to be sent to the poor house. I don't think I've ever come across anyone who's "never worked a day in their lives"

yaiyai

I think that it’s not fair that someone who has worked hard and paid both NI and tax for 50 years, chose to have only 2 children, did without many things to enable to buy a house, should be subsidising feckless (poor) people who have never worked a day in their lives and have several children etc. As far as why should the young pay for us oldies, isnt that what we did?

I'm not altogether that many of your 'feckless poor' actually exist. Some certainly do, but not enough to be a serious drain on public money.

And even the 'feckless poor' pay taxes...

Candelle

I keep seeing mention of care home fees being around £1,000 a week.

A friend has just gone into respite care after being very ill with Covid.

She was quoted £1,800 per week at one home but chose another 'at only' £1,500 per week.

There won't be much left in anyone's inheritance after these sums are paid!

Where I live, £1000 is about average for a care home where no significant nursing care is needed although some “posh” places are dearer. My mum pays £1045 a week, she has dementia but is physically fit. If she needed nursing care or 1 to 1 care, then her fees would go up significantly. Our LA pay around £650 for a room at this care home.

lightallan

Wondered when Brexit was going to rear it's head again. True to form as usual.

Well, of course it will.

We're all wondering where that £350million a week for the NHS has got to...

Surely income tax is the way to fill coffers for social care. It does seem unfair to load further debt onto the young through national insurance - although we have obviously paid our share as youngsters. A higher rate of income tax would ensure that everyone paid a fair sum according to their salaries.

Yaiyai does have a point re. some people - I won't call them feckless but there is a segment of society who have not paid into any type of pension fund (perhaps choosing and I mean choosing not to work), frittering their money away on smoking, drinking and gambling. They do exist.

I remember watching a television programme about residents in a care village. Some were self-funding and living in the next door apartment were the people mentioned in the above paragraph. They did a piece to camera mentioning their Spanish holidays etc., and explaining how they knew that they would be able to access the care that they were receiving so why save and pay for it? Those that did were plain stupid. I have never forgotten this and it does rather rankle when many of us have ensured we have saved for our old-age.

When I was teaching I worked with people who had never worked a day in their lives. They had children, in one case eight children, but most had fewer than that. Those who say these people don’t exist obviously live in very gilded cages themselves if they never came across such people.

Teacheranne my mother is in the same situation as yours. Her fees are nearly £1300 a week. Her assets won’t last very long at those prices because she’s not a rich woman.

Why is it perceived as a crime if you have managed to run a successful business, employed people, paid all taxes asked along with owning your own home?

When the NHS was first formed the notion of free at point of use from cradle to grave was inspired.

Medicine/surgery has changed drastically over the last 70 years, cures that today are commonplace would have appeared as miraculous in the 1930/40’s.

If the NHS is such a good role model and the (at one time) envy of the world why are there not more Countries with the same model

It would be beneficial to have a central procurement hub it could/would be able to save millions year on year. Cutting down on waste would/could generate enormous savings.

Care homes need an overhaul, there are huge disparities across the U.K. regarding care, nursing and fees.

No one can be blamed for spending their money whilst they can, given that they’ll get the same care, if needed, as someone who is paying for it. I don’t blame those residents Candelle.

Yaiyai does have a point re. some people - I won't call them feckless but there is a segment of society who have not paid into any type of pension fund (perhaps choosing and I mean choosing not to work), frittering their money away on smoking, drinking and gambling. They do exist.

I filched this from Facebook: Suppose you have a plate of biscuits. The rich folks took all the biscuits and left one on the plate, and told you the undeserving poor were trying to take the last biscuit.

And it seems we still fall for it.

Caleb. Rich people generally support themselves eg private healthcare and education. Also, regardless of how much or little tax they pay from their earnings (thinking celebs), it is the rich people supporting the rest of us. Do the maths. The average working person does not contribute as much as it costs to educate their children and healthcare etc. Look at figures quoted for a hospital birth alone then there is the rest.

Sorry - predictive text, was for Caleo

We need a drastic overhaul of the NHS and the care system . I said on another site that the NHS is advertising for managers on £270k. How does this fit in ?There are comments from Tory M.Ps about the danger of the NHS being a "bottomless pit "Perhaps the original plan has run its course and the whole area needs restructuring. We dont know what the money goes on, so more accountability is a must.~The reason the NHS has been untouchable is because its a vote winner/loser.
I do think that the funding should be from income tax. The use of National Insurance could lead to jobs being cut in small companies.

My Aunt lived in a council house, she had to go into a care home, no cost to her family. It was a lovely one too..
So do we need to get over the mind set of leaving loads of money, or spend it on ourselves?

Beau1958 "We have never had any help from the government."

Have you never looked out of the window and wondered just where all that stuff comes from?

I agree Monica

I totally agree with Razzy, it is really infair that people who have worked very hard and done withput to be able to pay a mortgage and buy a house should subsidise others who had equal,earnings but chose to spend their money on havei f a good time, lots of holidays, smoking and drinking !!! There are also young people who are able to work but unwilling to give up their benefits and get a job !

My parents inherited nothing, I inherited nothing. Not all have had it easy trying to buy a home. I do get annoyed at all those who have benefited from the council house sell off. It was allowed so of course people took advantage. As NI was never set up to cover residential/nursing care only health costs there has long been a gap in how they are funded. Both care categories are used not only by elderly. No matter how a tax is applied eg NI or income tax there will be discontent. As for paying for care, surely it should only be a contribution of state retirement pension and nothing else.

I agree with razzy and Maddyone. The system of care should be fair to everyone. Most people who end up having to sell their house for care home costs, are just average people who’ve worked hard to buy their own property. Not the wealthy who can afford their own care or people who have rented a property all their life. But yet again it’s the people in the middle.
The details of the new plan are now available.
It’s seems that we’ll all be paying, which I haven’t got a problem with.
But it seems is will only really benefit people with very little money.
This seems like a con. Because this section of society were already being looked after.