Well done Johnson’s government..

No probs MaisieD

25Avalon

MaisieD if you look back I asked WWM2 where the report she said HMRC had made came from so that I could verify it. She replied it was on the BBC website, so I googled “BBC and HMRC on tax increases” and found the article, which I assume was referred to, on BBC Politics headed “ Health tax could increase family breakdown, tax authority warns.” Hopefully you can now find it. Slightly different slant from that presented.

@Avalon

I owe you an apology. I have egg on my face. I am blushing.

I was arguing about something completely different, i.e Universal Credit. How I managed to get the two issues so mixed up is a mystery as, on rereading it is is quite clear that neither you nor WWmk2 said anything at all about UC. Now wonder I couldn't find the article, there never was one...

Sorry.

Rosina

Half the country is ignorant...? Oh dear.

There is a serious problem here. Whether people are ignorant or stupid or easily deceived by the right wing tabloids, the fact is that no party which is honest with the voters and says we want to improve public services but this will mean puting up taxes, ever attracts votes.

So many (ignorant? or stupid? or guillible?) voters will vote for a party which promises-

all sorts of wonderful benefits - improved public services, better NHS provision, schools, defense, pensions, new roads, more affordable houses, more public holidays etc,

but ABSOLUTELY no tax increase or NI increases and no-one will ever have to sell their house if they need to go into residential care (because our party believes that your children should have the right to inherit your house and anything else you are able to leave them)

So many people vote for that party. They are bound to win, especially when cheered on by the right wing tabloids

Josianne

^Marks and Spencer closed their Cologne Store in 2010. Couldn’t get supplies over regarding food. Germans didn’t like the clothes.^
Same in Paris, Lincslass. When I worked over there a long while ago, the M & S stores were changing to food only because French didn't like the clothes. Surely only a very small percentage of French people, and a few thousand British migrants, are going to be worried by the prospect of a collapse in the availability of British food delicacies? France has far better gastronomic delights to offer.

Think that’s rather an outdated view now Josianne, believe our food is just as good, certainly our cheeses and wine have been known to beat those from France.

If the stories about the wages now being offered to attract HGV drivers are true there are going to be price rises in all areas. Still I don't suppose Boris will notice a few quid extra on the wallpaper someone else is paying for.

It stands to reason that a reduction in income for a family already on a low income is very likely be destabilising. It's not a value judgement so much as a statement of the obvious.

25Avalon

Where does HMRC say this please? I am surprised they say it will have a ‘detrimental affect on family stability’ as that seems a value judgement rather than a statement of fact.

The report claims:

"There may be an impact on family formation, stability or breakdown as individuals, who are currently just about managing financially, will see their disposable income reduce."

MaizieD

I would be enormously grateful if someone could please post a link to the BBC story about the cut in Universal Credit.

I would really like to read it in view of Avalon's critique and *I can't find it*

The original report is here:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-and-social-care-levy/health-and-social-care-levy

Marks and Spencer closed their Cologne Store in 2010. Couldn’t get supplies over regarding food. Germans didn’t like the clothes.
Same in Paris, Lincslass. When I worked over there a long while ago, the M & S stores were changing to food only because French didn't like the clothes. Surely only a very small percentage of French people, and a few thousand British migrants, are going to be worried by the prospect of a collapse in the availability of British food delicacies? France has far better gastronomic delights to offer.

MaisieD if you look back I asked WWM2 where the report she said HMRC had made came from so that I could verify it. She replied it was on the BBC website, so I googled “BBC and HMRC on tax increases” and found the article, which I assume was referred to, on BBC Politics headed “ Health tax could increase family breakdown, tax authority warns.” Hopefully you can now find it. Slightly different slant from that presented.

Kapitan

I would rather the additional NIC I will pay goes to the NHS than the disfunctional druggie family down my street so they can spend it on booze and waccie baccie and stuff their kids full of junk food and fizzy drinks.

Perhaps if we hadn't had years of austerity, and the associated slashing of social services, social workers, sure start centres etc., maybe, just maybe, the family down your street wouldn't be in the mess they sound as if they are in.

I would rather the additional NIC I will pay goes to the NHS than the disfunctional druggie family down my street so they can spend it on booze and waccie baccie and stuff their kids full of junk food and fizzy drinks.

vegansrock

If they do extra work the extra pay will get deducted from UC. Talk about catch 22.

And they will pay tax and NI on it (if they earn enough) so 2 hrs wouldn't cover it, no where near, even if it didn't affect UC which of course it will. Apart from that 2 hrs on NMW would be a maximum of £17.82.

I was surprised Coffey didn't get challenged about that this morning.

MaizieD

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

Marks and Spencer are being forced to close their shops in Europe because of the on-going supply issues from the U.K.

It does seem to be a 'may close' story, rather than a 'will close'.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-12/marks-spencer-may-close-stores-in-france-daily-mail-reports

I knew there was something to do with M&S and supporting Brexit. Here's Brexit supporting M&S Chairman Archie Norman failing to understand what the Northern Ireland Protocol and making ourselves into a their country actually means.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/13/uk-delay-brexit-border-checks-food-eu

Marks and Spencer closed their Cologne Store in 2010. Couldn’t get supplies over regarding food. Germans didn’t like the clothes

Half the country is ignorant...? Oh dear.

I would be enormously grateful if someone could please post a link to the BBC story about the cut in Universal Credit.

I would really like to read it in view of Avalon's critique and I can't find it

Oh dear... @15.51 '...making ourselves into a third country...

You should not make assumptions about my financial situation. I do not like to see things twisted.

Jeeez...

I didn't make any assumptions about your financial situation. It was a hypothetical 'you'. It was a 'put yourself in the position of someone on UC 'you'. I haven't the foggiest notion what your financial situation is, nor do I give a monkeys about it.

Why do posters always take things personally when there is no discernible need to?

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

Marks and Spencer are being forced to close their shops in Europe because of the on-going supply issues from the U.K.

It does seem to be a 'may close' story, rather than a 'will close'.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-12/marks-spencer-may-close-stores-in-france-daily-mail-reports

I knew there was something to do with M&S and supporting Brexit. Here's Brexit supporting M&S Chairman Archie Norman failing to understand what the Northern Ireland Protocol and making ourselves into a their country actually means.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/13/uk-delay-brexit-border-checks-food-eu

You should not make assumptions about my financial situation. I do not like to see things twisted.
I agree. The assumptions that are routinely made on threads like these are maddening. I am in no way singling out Maisie, incidentally.

It is perfectly possible to have a broadly left-wing political stance and be comfortable financially, just as it is to be skint and vote Tory. It seems that a lot of the time people don't read what is said, but jump in with assumptions based on their own prejudices.

Anyway. I would swear that I read a very similar story to Maisie's on the Guardian website last night, but I can't find it now. Meantime, here is the Institute of Fiscal Studies' take on the matter. They conclude that there are much fairer ways to reclaim revenue than the one chosen by the Tories, such as higher taxes on capital gains, dividends and self-employment.

Good point well made MaizieD, perhaps I would have been more accurate to say he is well educated, has knowledge of how money works. Either way, it is disappointing to say the least, that the Tory administration, irrespective of their individual life and work background are ignoring what years of experience have shown, that austerity does not work, that hitting the poorest does not work. We are clearly suffering from the impact of austerity politics on most public services ie NHS, education, policing etc., and it is frightening just how quickly this government and its supporters are eager to impose it on the country again. The punishment of the poorer paid, just for being so, is disgusting and shameful.

what concerns me is that even Sunak, who we have to assume knows a bit about economics

I don't think that Sunak knows anything at all about economics, GillT57. He was in banking; that's about making money, nothing to do with economics: The social science that deals with the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services and with the theory and management of economies or economic systems.

25Avalon

You miss my point MaisieD. It’s about items being wrongly reported to put an diffferent slant on them. The maybe quote is what HMRC actually said which is different from what was reported by the poster. At no point have I given a personal viewpoint on the raising of NI. You should not make assumptions about my financial situation. I do not like to see things twisted.

You write an admonitory post, Avalon and it will be twisted. Especially as it is implied in your post that you don't agree with what has been reported.

I actually said nothing at all about NI increase in my response to you. No, I tell a lie. I said that that was the only story I could find on the BBC and HMRC were being positive that it would be harmful. Nothing to do with your personal viewpoint.

Are you going to post a link to the BBC story about the cut to UC? If I can't read it I can't judge how valid your criticism of WWmk2 was.

You miss my point MaisieD. It’s about items being wrongly reported to put an diffferent slant on them. The maybe quote is what HMRC actually said which is different from what was reported by the poster. At no point have I given a personal viewpoint on the raising of NI. You should not make assumptions about my financial situation. I do not like to see things twisted.

It is my sincere hope that people remember all the lies, cronyism and handouts to friends by the current govt when the next GE is called.