AUKUS

I can understand also why the Australians may have got very frustrated and fed up but should have been up-front about what their intentions were.

Very interesting article in the Guardian entitled “The nuclear Option: why has Australia ditched the French” Australia seems to have been running with the hounds and the hares. They will have to pay substantial amounts to the French for breaking the contract. The French now say they could have supplied nuclear powered submarines which Australia says was the reason they ditched the French deal. It has gone on sometime with different politicians and policies in Australian Government. They also claim the French were late with producing letters let alone submarines.

Difficult to know what to think but I can understand the annoyance on the part of the French.

PippaZ

Not fancy, Alegrais. Just that a third of us are Australian, a third British and the other third American. Some have duel nationality. It felt really nice that our wide flung family group now had a name Heaven knows where the GCs will end up.

Re HMS Vigil - worrying thought.

Sorry, I wasn't getting at you PippaZ, sorry if it came over that way. It was the description of the technologies I was getting at.

PippaZ

GrannyGravy13

Hopefully it might make China think twice about world domination.

The words snowball and hell come to mind, sadly.

I think you're right.

Not fancy, Alegrais. Just that a third of us are Australian, a third British and the other third American. Some have duel nationality. It felt really nice that our wide flung family group now had a name Heaven knows where the GCs will end up.

Re HMS Vigil - worrying thought.

Ooh, this sounds fancy.

Recognizing our deep defense ties, built over decades, today we also embark on further trilateral collaboration under AUKUS to enhance our joint capabilities and interoperability. These initial efforts will focus on cyber capabilities, artificial intelligence, quantum technologies, and additional undersea capabilities.

HMS Vigil, here we come.

I don't think I am either Alegrais. We are an Aukus family so it should feel good. It feels more like going backwards though.

I'm not flattered.

To be honest I feel for France. They’ve been negotiating in what they felt must have been good faith whilst behind their backs, a huge secretive negotiation was taking place. Oz was putting out feelers. On the Q.T. The whole operation was given a code name and only very limited players were involved.

Whilst I don’t blame Boris for being delighted to be approached and the enormous financial benefit to be gained by the UK it does all feel a bit shabby somehow.

We are obviously flattered to have been asked to form this triumvirate. It cements a more sure footing for Global Britain. But still. Poor France. Macron was SO looking forward to dealing with Biden too instead of Trump. He must be gutted. A double punch in the solar plexus.

But hey. Big business. What do I know? (nowt).

I think France was playing to the home audience with the comments about the UK. Mind you, there is some truth in them.

MaizieD

Very saddened by the infantile anti-France sentiment expressed by some in this thread. They never seem to have never left the school playground...

‘Twas ever thus

I’m surprised that Johnson is able to make such important decisions without consulting parliament.

Does anyone know/have read whether Biden has locked in a future Trump or successor?

GrannyGravy13

Hopefully it might make China think twice about world domination.

The words snowball and hell come to mind, sadly.

maddyone

So France has withdrawn their ambassadors from America and Australia. Is France throwing a hissy fit, or it this a justified reaction?

I think it is justified - someone should have had the manners to include them in the talks and perhaps involve them in some of the future processes.

Urmstongran

After breaking a treaty with the UK on Hong Kong, if China take Taiwan by force, the world has to wonder who is next (when China initially uses intimidation and is already 'confronting' other nations), and other nations are waking up to that.

History in the last century shows sitting back/appeasement does not work out when a nation believes that it has a god given right to take other nations, one way or another.

Neither does intervention. Vietnam and Afghanistan?

Visgir1

The French press picked this up in January that this contract was becoming dodgy due to the French not being able to deliver on time, over budget and it was looking in danger to being cancelled, so it should not have been that much of a surprise.
China's development of their military power left Australia with little option especially with the French failing on the set contract, if they were further along with the build this probably would not have happened.
Obviously they would throw a strop.

Thank you for that insight. See they only tell you what they want you to know. No surprise Australia gave up.

Very saddened by the infantile anti-France sentiment expressed by some in this thread. They never seem to have never left the school playground...

maddyone

So France has withdrawn their ambassadors from America and Australia. Is France throwing a hissy fit, or it this a justified reaction?

Throwing a hissy fit. It’s all down to the money they’ve lost, although a deal was signed in 2016, am sure there will be monetary reparations from Australia. Still at the end of the day Australia’s choice.

It was a joke Bodach but a poor one, I admit.

The French press picked this up in January that this contract was becoming dodgy due to the French not being able to deliver on time, over budget and it was looking in danger to being cancelled, so it should not have been that much of a surprise.
China's development of their military power left Australia with little option especially with the French failing on the set contract, if they were further along with the build this probably would not have happened.
Obviously they would throw a strop.

If I had a £60 billion contract with somebody and then they said no thanks, we're not paying that after all, then I'd be pretty peeved. Especially if I found out why during a press conference which I wasn't invited to.

It makes us here in Australia a sitting target for China which is a worry. They will get us one way or another. Unfortunately our foreign minister clearly is not blessed with a great deal of brainpower and also the tact and discretion gene passed her by. The way they have handled things is atrocious, the French have every right to feel angry.

So France has withdrawn their ambassadors from America and Australia. Is France throwing a hissy fit, or it this a justified reaction?

If Parsley3 can remember Flodden s/he must be considerably older than anyone else on GN.

Good parallel with today's discussion though. Expecting military support through international treaty doesn't tend to go the way you think it will. Better to concentrate on how alliances influence culture, language and architecture, among other things, hence having long term effects on a country's culture in general.

Parsley3

^Of course France is such a Aragon of virtue. Still they were never really our “friends” were they.^

Speak for yourself, Lincslass. I am still a fan of the Auld Alliance.

Why are you a fan, Parsley3? Militarily at least, France gained considerably more than Scotland from the "Auld Alliance". Every time France whistled, the Scots faithfully provided troops to fight for them against the English on the Continent - with little subsequent benefit - or invaded England to ease the pressure on the French and got thumped for their pains. Remember Flodden?