Uncouth Angela Rayner doing Labour no favours

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Can you imagine a disagreement between Johnson and Thatcher? Thatcher would have won every time just by staring at him without ever calling him a name.

PS. Betty Boothroyd or Barbara Castle would have had the same effect.

trisher

growstuff there is a world of difference between a child swearing at a teacher and an adult using such language, as anyone going into a school staff room would discover.

I'm not sure there is. In both cases, the one behaving like a mature adult gains the upper hand eventually.

A tit-for-tat blame game won't achieve anything. Personally, I do think Johnson is scum and I know perfectly well what Rayner means, but shouting names from the sideline achieves nothing.

paddyann54

I was aiming never to come on political threads again ...but for the love of whatever god you have this arguement is a joke! Have none of you heard the insults .swearing in Westminster? Did no one hear the tory benches tell Ian Blackwood to F* off back to Skye or F* off back home ..DURING a debate ? The behaviour in WM is worse than you would expect in a classroom in a very bad area and yet you all think SCUM is a problem????? The sad thing is Ms Rayner missed out the worst of the Johnson governments faults ,his Lying ,his money grabbing for his mates ,his total lack of any kind of competence ,This is another case of WOMEN who believe other women are getting above themselves ,we listened to exactly the same rubbish when Mairi Black opened her mouth to speak.A highly intelligent young woman but because she didnt fit YOUR mold you couldn't be bothered to listen to her arguements.Thats a very sad state of affairs.But given the clowns you voted for maybe its what we should expect.Now I 'm out .Only came back to leave condolences on Phoenix thread .I'll bow back out now .

Go Paddyann54 -by which I r]mean stay don’t leave, just continue to make heart felt posts like the one at 10.3- today.

Ilovecheese

Anyone remember Boris Johnson saying "Fuck business"?

Yes, and he went even further down in my estimation. AR is a good speaker, she strings together a better sentence than BJ and she speaks with passion, she really doesn't need to stoop to his level. If she has any political nuance (and I think she has it in spade loads) she'll be more careful in future.

Anyone remember Boris Johnson saying "Fuck business"?

growstuff there is a world of difference between a child swearing at a teacher and an adult using such language, as anyone going into a school staff room would discover.

Paddyanne do stay please

But Gagajo you're a teacher. If your experience is anything like mine, there were plenty of times I was sworn at or a child was so cheeky that I could have cheerfully smacked him/her. You have to remind yourself that you're the adult and are supposed to be setting an example, even if that means looking like Miss Trunchbull.

Angela Rayner can adopt a killer stare and she needs to use that, without resorting to language which is guaranteed to be criticised.

Hear, hear Paddyann!

It's also a snobbish, dismissive and 'designed to keep them down' attitude towards the working-class while the middle/upper class can get away with whatever they like. As with Johnon and 'letterboxes' 'tank-topped bumboys' 'piccaninnies' and 'watermelon smiles'.

If anyone should apologise it should be that all-out racist, homophobic bigot. HE is after all the leader (ha!) of our country.

Boz Don't most of us know that the Times does Murdoch's bidding?

Perhaps the Times should be thinking more about the Home Counties Tory seats following on from the Chesham by-election.

Apparently because of covid and working from home there has been an influx of youngish Londoners into the Home Counties and they are generally left of centre. It's a strong possibility that Raab will lose his seat (Esher). Time will tell but I for one am hoping.

growstuff

You're right trisher and I'm not the slightest bit shocked at the word "scum", especially when everybody knows what Rayner meant.

Nevertheless, I think it's a shame she didn't rise above it. There's no reason to be dragged down to Johnson's level.

I can't remember now what she was talking about, but I do remember one occasion when she was confronting Johnson in the HoC. The look she gave him could have killed - she was terrifying without saying a word. She has the gift of leaving him no defence and needs to be clever enough to use it.

Nevertheless, I think it's a shame she didn't rise above it.
There's no reason to be dragged down to Johnson's level.

I agree growstuff
The general defence of Rayner's choice of language on this thread is
"Well, he said such and such so why shouldn't she?" (ie Johnson or any Tory MP)
Or
"Is it because she's a woman?"
etc

All of which is no defence at all and red herrings as this particular thread is about Angela Rayner and her choice of vernacular.

That being said, I do despair at dumbing down of language used in the political arena now - it has deteriorated over the years and there is nothing statesmanlike (or stateswomanlike) about so many who are public eye now.

They are supposedly grownups, our leaders and they should lead and inspire, not sink to the lowest common denominator in speech and behaviour.

Stay paddyann

I was aiming never to come on political threads again ...but for the love of whatever god you have this arguement is a joke! Have none of you heard the insults .swearing in Westminster? Did no one hear the tory benches tell Ian Blackwood to F* off back to Skye or F* off back home ..DURING a debate ? The behaviour in WM is worse than you would expect in a classroom in a very bad area and yet you all think SCUM is a problem????? The sad thing is Ms Rayner missed out the worst of the Johnson governments faults ,his Lying ,his money grabbing for his mates ,his total lack of any kind of competence ,This is another case of WOMEN who believe other women are getting above themselves ,we listened to exactly the same rubbish when Mairi Black opened her mouth to speak.A highly intelligent young woman but because she didnt fit YOUR mold you couldn't be bothered to listen to her arguements.Thats a very sad state of affairs.But given the clowns you voted for maybe its what we should expect.Now I 'm out .Only came back to leave condolences on Phoenix thread .I'll bow back out now .

Boz

The aggressive dislike many on the left feel towards Tory supporters will repel those who Keir Starmer needs to win over

A quote from The Times to-day but very true.

Weasel words.

She wasn't talking about tory voters, just about the scum they voted for.

I feel more bemused by tory voters than anything else.

I don’t find Johnson acceptable full stop trisher, so that was a really odd question?

Boz

The aggressive dislike many on the left feel towards Tory supporters will repel those who Keir Starmer needs to win over

A quote from The Times to-day but very true.

No, it isn't; it's an opinion which you seem to share. Do you think that because The Times says so it has to be true?

Why does the Times think Keir Starmer needs Tory supporters anyway. What he needs are floating voters who floated in the Tory direction because of Brexit.

By the time of the next election, they won't care what anyone else thinks of them. Their taxes will have gone up, their heating and lighting will have gone up, their food prices will have gone up, their petrol prices will have gone up. In-work benefits and pensions will not have gone up. Who do you think they will vote for in those circumstances?

You're right trisher and I'm not the slightest bit shocked at the word "scum", especially when everybody knows what Rayner meant.

Nevertheless, I think it's a shame she didn't rise above it. There's no reason to be dragged down to Johnson's level.

I can't remember now what she was talking about, but I do remember one occasion when she was confronting Johnson in the HoC. The look she gave him could have killed - she was terrifying without saying a word. She has the gift of leaving him no defence and needs to be clever enough to use it.

So when Johnson called Muslim women "letter boxes" did you find that acceptable Casdon.?
It's funny there always has been amongst the working class this perception that to use bad language somehow indicates that you aren't as clever or as civilised as some members. I was raised with this idea. My parents never swore and regarded people who did as slightly inferior to them. I think it was probably established during Victorian times by the church. It is probably linked with the deserving and undeserving poor.

I give up. As I’ve repeatedly said it’s not specifically about the word scum, or what situation she was in when she said it. It’s not because she’s a woman. We all have a line. I can’t defend her behaviour now because she’s crossed it for me. That doesn’t mean I’m a Pearl clutcher, a snob, a closet Tory (God forbid) or that I don’t understand the oppression of women in society. None of us are going to change others positions by arguing about whether we think the way she behaved is acceptable.

The aggressive dislike many on the left feel towards Tory supporters will repel those who Keir Starmer needs to win over

A quote from The Times to-day but very true.

...and you forgot something trisher - as long as you're not a working class woman who's no better than she should be.

I just despair when the whole focus is on the language someone used and all the racist, homophobic, mysoginistic stuff is ignored. What it implies is that you can be as divisive as you like as long as your vocabulary is OK.