Gina Miller the woman who tried to stop Brexit starting new party called 'True and Fair' ?

Interestingly the courts don't seem to think so. love0c Now who should I believe knows whether the cases she has brought - which you don't like presumably - or the person who has tried to keep democracy from being shattered by this government.

Mmm. Not much thinking required about that.

Gina Miller does not understand the meaning of the words 'true' or fair'. IMO.

Well I have been to Scotland twice- first time in 1970, adn second time in 88- so perhaps, hey.

Totally different situation, no comparison whatsoever!

A second vote would have to define what Brexit is, and have a minimum % to win- and serious scrutiny of lies and intervention by large donors and foreign donors, as it should have been the first time.

Liveinnan

So after a second referendum a third, fourth, fifth? No, You can’t keep on having referendums. Scots take note.

You do know we can actually read, do you?

You do know that everybody accepted the results of the 2014 referendum even though the Unionists had a little panic at the end and sent the boys round to promise things they couldn't deliver? Like, you know, not being taken out of Europe? (The boys being mostly those political heavyweights Gordon Brown and Nick Clegg of course)

Oh, but, don't worry, we've taken note. But not of what you think we should take note of.

As for not keeping on having referendums? Just watch us.

No point in posting on this thread to find out anything about the new party. You are all running the referendum again like people who watch old war films (which are generally no nearer the truth than anything said by the "winners").

I hope she will be standing for government to be held to account and MPs imprisoned if they have behaved in a way that undermines legal democracy. PR would be good too.

It doesn't look as if she will say any more until it has been passed by the Electoral Commission.

Liveinnan

So after a second referendum a third, fourth, fifth? No, You can’t keep on having referendums. Scots take note.

You can if people cheat.

So after a second referendum a third, fourth, fifth? No, You can’t keep on having referendums. Scots take note.

Thank you fot letting us know about that. It sounds interesting. I'll look it up.

Like many who have posted I appreciate that she was prepared to hold the government to account and try to help us maintain democracy.

Bodach

"So let's just have a Second Vote now- that will sort it out. Easy peasy."
Kali2: You're not, by any chance, Nicola Sturgeon?

Hear hear

LadyGracie

I think you'll find the pandemic has had a big influence on what is happening now.
We had a democratic referendum on Brexit.
I think you'll find that the staunch remainers are the undemocratic ones in our society.

Very convenient this pandemic, and like all viruses it is mutating well, at the moment it has become an HGV driver shortage.

Nothing undemocratic about thinking knowing that Brexit is the biggest mistake this country has ever voluntarily made, and we aren't even fully there yet.

"So let's just have a Second Vote now- that will sort it out. Easy peasy."
Kali2: You're not, by any chance, Nicola Sturgeon?

I wonder why you are not keen? hmmmmmm

And still, after all this time- we have NO idea what kind of Brexit we will have, large sections have not been implemented, and the consequences not hit yet - petrol crisis or not.

So yes, no wonder.

But the doodoo is truly hitting the fan, and the HGV drivers and petrol crisis will lead to a massive series of very unpleasant realities hitting all- Remainers, Leavers, and everything in between. and that is not scare mongering.

???
No.

Anecdotal does not cut the mustard.

So let's just have a Second Vote now- that will sort it out. Easy peasy.

Nobody knew what the first referendum result would be, never mind a second one!
How exactly am I supposed to provide evidence? All I can say is that quite a few GNers who voted to Remain have stated that they accepted the outcome, and Remainers in my family and friends also accept it.
It’s only on social media that there is all the anger and bitterness six years later.

lemongrove ''Although it must be remembered that most Remainers do
Accept the outcome of the referendum '' would you care to provide evidence for this? I know many remainers who accepted the outcome, but now have changed their mind. I also know very many Brexiters who now have changed their mind, realise they were duped and lied to - and want to influence the outcome, for a softer type of Brexit- as a hard Brexit is clearly a disaster for too many.

Remember that the Brexit Referendum was just a 'yes' or 'no' option- and no-one, but no-one, had any idea what kind of Brexit it would be, what form it would take, or indeed what the consequences will be.

Demographics have changed too. I dare you to state, unequivocably, that a second vote would bring the same result now. Could you swear to this, hand on your heart?

Just to add, Gina Miller is wasting her time and money.

Ooops, in the first place.

LadyGracie

I think you'll find the pandemic has had a big influence on what is happening now.
We had a democratic referendum on Brexit.
I think you'll find that the staunch remainers are the undemocratic ones in our society.

True.
Although it must be remembered that most Remainers do
Accept the outcome of the referendum and are prepared to just get on with it.Just a few that seem to stay bitter that we have left the EU.

railman since you are having a go at referendums, perhaps you have forgotten that we had one to go into the EU in the fir

Liveinnan

Here here LadyGracie.

I can’t see how the Brexit referendum was flawed, everyone entitled to vote had their chance to decide the outcome and the majority get what they want implemented. What is undemocratic about that?

What Donald Trump attempted in the USA that’s undemocratic.

Just a little something about the Leave campaigns breaking electoral law. You know, the laws that are meant to ensure that electoral campaigns (and referendums) are run fairly.

As someone said earlier, had the referendum been mandatory rather than advisory it would have been declared void (and rerun...)

Katie59

If the truth had been told, and the realities accepted there is no way that the referendum would have been won. As it was lies and blind optimism won, so we just suffer the consequences, no way back.

You forgot about the illegal overspending...

Here here LadyGracie.

I can’t see how the Brexit referendum was flawed, everyone entitled to vote had their chance to decide the outcome and the majority get what they want implemented. What is undemocratic about that?

What Donald Trump attempted in the USA that’s undemocratic.

Angela Merkel has been at the helm in Germany for 13 years, and whatever you think of her politics, she has earned respect amongst world leaders. Unlike the UK Germany kept is manufacturing base - they make their own cars, tractors, fridges , washing machine, heavy machinery etc which many other countries want to buy. They have a world class health system, with much more of the country's GDP being spent on health and social care than the UK. Pensions are higher too. It is far more stable politically and economically prosperous and productive than the UK. Plus guess what - its in the EU and had PR.

Lincslass Stephen Tierney may be unbiased but that article was written in July 2016, one month after the vote and long before all the Leave shenanigans came to light. I don't think that it has much bearing now.

not another woman to slag off Jesus Christ