Gina Miller the woman who tried to stop Brexit starting new party called 'True and Fair' ?

Kali2

At the end of the day, they will have to work together if the results are so close.

With a bit of luck the Greens will play a large part in German decision making

If the truth had been told, and the realities accepted there is no way that the referendum would have been won. As it was lies and blind optimism won, so we just suffer the consequences, no way back.

Kali2

Lincslass

Kali2

What was Democratic about Brexit?

A Referendum.

Sadly, that has been proven beyond a shadow of doubt that this Referendum was not won fairly or democratically. If you have not accepted that, despite all the evidence - then what can I say.

Rather read this unbiased view
ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/07/25/stephen-tierney-was-the-brexit-referendum-democratic/

As has been said every time I have voted my vote does not count because it’s virtually impossible to overturn the incumbent MP.
Germany has a different system which means literally yards of voting slips to be completed by each voter. Result is very tight but it’s only day 1 post election, and will take a while before things finally settle.

At the end of the day, they will have to work together if the results are so close.

Proves my point.

Kali2

Urmstongran

I’d rather our FPTP voting than PR. Coalitions of groups just seem to produce more hot air (ahem, discussions) and decision making becomes very problematic for the poor electorate!

It depends on the kind of PR. Your comment applies to Italy, but not France and Germany.

How can a system which aleniates a massive proportion of the population, just because of where they live, be democratic. See saw, extreme politics has been disastrous for this country in the past 75 years. No wonder so many people don't vote. I have voted on principle every single time- knowing full well, before I cast my vote, that it would go straight in the bin. Democracy did you say?

According to German family the close election result yesterday will become very messy 206 seats to Scholz SPD, but apparently Laschet with 196 won’t give up, and will fight to retain some power for the CDU/ CSU. So not always an amicable solution.

Almost worse than a joke, Europe pities us.

Yes Germany usually have a coalition government, it’s how their system works, and it does work, very well. If only...

Lincslass

Kali2

What was Democratic about Brexit?

A Referendum.

Sadly, that has been proven beyond a shadow of doubt that this Referendum was not won fairly or democratically. If you have not accepted that, despite all the evidence - then what can I say.

Urmstongran

I’d rather our FPTP voting than PR. Coalitions of groups just seem to produce more hot air (ahem, discussions) and decision making becomes very problematic for the poor electorate!

It depends on the kind of PR. Your comment applies to Italy, but not France and Germany.

How can a system which aleniates a massive proportion of the population, just because of where they live, be democratic. See saw, extreme politics has been disastrous for this country in the past 75 years. No wonder so many people don't vote. I have voted on principle every single time- knowing full well, before I cast my vote, that it would go straight in the bin. Democracy did you say?

LadyGracie

I think you'll find the pandemic has had a big influence on what is happening now.
We had a democratic referendum on Brexit.
I think you'll find that the staunch remainers are the undemocratic ones in our society.

As someone pointed out elsewhere the referendum was flawed. The only reason that no legal action was taken was because it was an advisory referendum.

The staunch remainers are the ones that are attempting to ensure that come the next election the public do not forget the mess this govt has made.

Urmstongran

I’d rather our FPTP voting than PR. Coalitions of groups just seem to produce more hot air (ahem, discussions) and decision making becomes very problematic for the poor electorate!

Germany has had a coalition government throughout the period of Angela Merkel's Chancellorship. Germany is probably the most successful country in the EU. What's not to like?

In order:

Not that big, actually.

No we didn't.

No we're not.

I think you'll find the pandemic has had a big influence on what is happening now.
We had a democratic referendum on Brexit.
I think you'll find that the staunch remainers are the undemocratic ones in our society.

Lincslass

Kali2

What was Democratic about Brexit?

A Referendum.

I believe that Germany's National Socialist Party and Hitler was keen on referendums in the 1930s too - so not sure that is an argument for democracy.
www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-hitler-guide-to-rigging-a-referendum

Even the right wing extremest papers seem to recognise that referendums do not equal democracy, and they supported Germany in the 1930s I gather.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663863/Now-Far-Right-demands-Dexit-poll-Deutschland-referendums-banned-HITLER-abused-polls-claimed-Jews-supported-Dachau.html

Kali2

What was Democratic about Brexit?

A Referendum.

Blimey I thought she was brilliant at the time and would love to see her come back with some alternative to the clowns we have in power now
Can’t anyone see that all the bad stuff we thought would happen through Brexit is happening now in bucketloads
What a joke this country has become

I know I shouldn't, but anyway....

The SNP won 64 seats in the 2021 election which is one more than it won in 2016. (The SNP, which people like to personalise as Nicola Sturgeon because its easier to have a go at an uppity woman, same as Gina Miller or Angela Rayner).

They have reached an agreement with the Greens to work together over the next 5 years because that is how PR governments work.

No struggling.

Oh, I read that and had completely forgotten her.
Do you think the same will happen with Angela Rayner?

Urmstongran

If the cap fits. Nicola Sturgeon is struggling. Tied in with the Greens. Ooh, that’s going to go well.

I bow to your forensically argued case...

Fair that's a joke,coming from her not a democratic bone in her body.

Urmstongran

If the cap fits. Nicola Sturgeon is struggling. Tied in with the Greens. Ooh, that’s going to go well.

In the name of the wee man.....

Urmstongran

I’d rather our FPTP voting than PR. Coalitions of groups just seem to produce more hot air (ahem, discussions) and decision making becomes very problematic for the poor electorate!

What could produce more hot air than Johnson?

If the cap fits. Nicola Sturgeon is struggling. Tied in with the Greens. Ooh, that’s going to go well.

Petera

Urmstongran

I’d rather our FPTP voting than PR. Coalitions of groups just seem to produce more hot air (ahem, discussions) and decision making becomes very problematic for the poor electorate!

So are you saying that nearly every other country in Europe (including Scotland) doesn't work?

I think she's saying that she's not terribly keen on Democracy