Labour party conference, is no-one else interested?

Dinahmo

rosie1959 Surely, as mortgage brokers, you should have known a bit more about the financial crash in 2008 and not believe the Tory rhetoric.

It started in 2007 in America with the targeting of low income, low information and primarily ethnic minority home buyers with mortgage offers.

This was combined with excessive risk taking by global financial institutions and quickly followed by the bursting of the US housing bubble.

This then lead to mortgage backed securities (MBS), tied to American real estate and the derivatives linked to MBS collapsing in value.

As a result of the above worldwide financial institutions suffered sever damage and it climaxed with the collapse of Lehman Brothers in September 2008.

If you haven't seen the film Margin Call, shot in 2 weeks in what I think were empty Lehman Brothers offices you should look out for it. It's an excellent film.

I'm sure that you can see from the above that the crisis in the UK was not the fault of Labour or Gordon Brown, it was the fault of dubious practices by financial institutions the world over. In fact Gordon Brown together with Alistair Darling were responsible for persuading America and Europe how to deal with the crisis. On Black Friday Darling (then Chancellor) was informed by the B of E that HBOS and RBS were out of money and wouldn't be able to open doors the next Monday. Darling flew to America and Brown went to Paris for a meeting (to which he had not been invited) with the EU heads of state. The English had already decided that it was necessary to re-capitalise the banks and they persuaded their counterparts that that was the right way to go. And it worked.

I am not a Mortgage Broker my husband is i did not work for our company all that time ago
I just remembered the fallout and problems with the FSA and Gordon Brown admitting he had made a big mistake over the handling of financial regulations in the run up to the banking crisis
My husband knows far more about it than me

GillT57

Dinahmo, the problem is that most people are not aware of this, and many still believe the 'Labour left us bust' lies churned out by the Conservatives, thus being suckered into believing in austerity as a cure.

It will always make me very angry that Labour never vigorously defended their record in this respect.

Dinahmo, the problem is that most people are not aware of this, and many still believe the 'Labour left us bust' lies churned out by the Conservatives, thus being suckered into believing in austerity as a cure.

On Black Friday Darling (then Chancellor) was informed by the B of E that HBOS and RBS were out of money and wouldn't be able to open doors the next Monday.

Thanks for that, Dinahmo.

This is the point which most people don't seem to 'get'. The failure of those two banks would have led to the failure of others because people would rush to get their money out before their bank failed too. (Northern Rock had queues round the block) Like the current fuel panic buying. Which would have had catastrophic consequences.

But let's go on bashing Labour for a jokey note left by a junior minister...

Galaxy

Actually rabbitgran that kind of contempt for people is part of the problem. Hopefully the labour party under Starmer wont play that game.

It's very difficult in the current circumstances to feel contempt occasionally. When Johnson was first elected as leader of the Tory party I heard several people say that he was one of the lads. I'd have thought (or hoped) that they would have changed their minds by now. Obviously not.

Oops - my last post in reply to Grany Fri 01-Oct-21 10:25:30

rosie1959 Surely, as mortgage brokers, you should have known a bit more about the financial crash in 2008 and not believe the Tory rhetoric.

It started in 2007 in America with the targeting of low income, low information and primarily ethnic minority home buyers with mortgage offers.

This was combined with excessive risk taking by global financial institutions and quickly followed by the bursting of the US housing bubble.

This then lead to mortgage backed securities (MBS), tied to American real estate and the derivatives linked to MBS collapsing in value.

As a result of the above worldwide financial institutions suffered sever damage and it climaxed with the collapse of Lehman Brothers in September 2008.

If you haven't seen the film Margin Call, shot in 2 weeks in what I think were empty Lehman Brothers offices you should look out for it. It's an excellent film.

I'm sure that you can see from the above that the crisis in the UK was not the fault of Labour or Gordon Brown, it was the fault of dubious practices by financial institutions the world over. In fact Gordon Brown together with Alistair Darling were responsible for persuading America and Europe how to deal with the crisis. On Black Friday Darling (then Chancellor) was informed by the B of E that HBOS and RBS were out of money and wouldn't be able to open doors the next Monday. Darling flew to America and Brown went to Paris for a meeting (to which he had not been invited) with the EU heads of state. The English had already decided that it was necessary to re-capitalise the banks and they persuaded their counterparts that that was the right way to go. And it worked.

PippaZ

rosie1959

The difference is PippaZ I gave a personal experience I would not attack your character assuming I know all about you that would be rude and unnecessary and would definitely not make sarcastic comments about your political preference.
If you cant see this difference then I may be a Conservative voter but I prefer not to make comments about someone I don't actually know

I am commenting on someone who has told me that they are a Conservative voter. You said you are a person who would never vote other than Conservative. You said this was because you measure parties by what happens personally while those parties are in power. You made it clear you don't work out where the fault really did lay.

I just pointed out that other people, who are likely to see Johnson's time in power as having been very negative personally, may do the same in a year or so's time.

If this were a chat over coffee with friends, I might brush over it and move us on to another subject. However, this is a politics thread which you would think might give you a clue that people take this seriously - or perhaps, like Boris, you don't do "serious" when it concerns others, either?

One day I sincerely hope that Conservative voters who keep Johnson in power will find that telling people this will not go down very well - even with people who know them and can balance that statement. Before that can happen, we have to restore our democracy, but I live in hope.

Thank you for your reply PippaZ I shall take your comments on board

Labour’s polling has fallen after Keir Starmer’s ...-

If this is true then why haven't you put a reference to the poll that says this. I haven't been able to find one so far. Is this an attempt to make us question reality? I don't think that will appeal to many people or put the far-left any higher up the polls.

I have found one poll that says Keir Starmer outperformed Mr Johnson's first conference speech in 2019

However I can't find one taken since the conference. Perhaps you could put a link on.

trisher

But if the country generally opts for change the Tories would be out anyway. We might have a left wing Labour government that would enable Local authorities to build council properties, make energy provision not for profit, nationalise the railways and water, look after the poor. The alternative is a Labour government that would just look after the rich just like the Tories.

The alternative to a far-left Labour government is a Labour government the would act like the Tories?

Why would you say that? What evidence do you have?

This makes me think even more that we need PR. Then the extremists would be able to have their two or three representatives making their point. I'm not being rude but if you offered either extreme not attached to our known party names you will not get a majority of voters. Whether we like it or not people sit around the middle.

trisher

But if the country generally opts for change the Tories would be out anyway. We might have a left wing Labour government that would enable Local authorities to build council properties, make energy provision not for profit, nationalise the railways and water, look after the poor. The alternative is a Labour government that would just look after the rich just like the Tories.

Fair enough. but back to reality, the country will not opt for Left of Labour. That is abundantly clear.

So due to the above and the realities of FPTPS - you have 2 alternatives at the moment, and only two. Those abominable, destructive, selfish Tories who are prepared to scupper the country in order to be able to continue to tax evade by the billions ...

or a Labour Government with a clever alliance with LibDem, Greens and possibly others- a truly winning team - who will care for the NHS, education, social care the environment, public transport, and so much more ...

which will not be quite as left as you would like.

I'd say it is a no brainer, truly, and with respect.

I think they just check the facts, PippaZ, which doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to disprove them. They have a whole "Reality Check" section.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/reality_check

trisher

But if the country generally opts for change the Tories would be out anyway. We might have a left wing Labour government that would enable Local authorities to build council properties, make energy provision not for profit, nationalise the railways and water, look after the poor. The alternative is a Labour government that would just look after the rich just like the Tories.

But the very people that the left wing of the party are so desperate to help voted for the Tories. They had the chance to vote for a Corbyn led socialist government and responded by voting Tory. And no one has explained to me yet who this new charismatic Labour leader is going to be.

I am so glad you said that Alegrais. I can't see what point they are trying to make. Are the BBC going in for gaslighting now and trying to make something out that, even their figures point out, isn't worth doing?

Lincslass

Fact checking by the BBC, makes interesting reading for the Labour fans
www.bbc.co.uk/news/58737567

It pretty much confirms everything he said is true

Anniebach

So have a far left Labour Party and keep the Tory government

Quite right.

Fact checking by the BBC, makes interesting reading for the Labour fans
www.bbc.co.uk/news/58737567

I have had enough of "charisma" Johnson style.

If you look up "what people want from a government", lists vary. What isn't listed is charisma. Whatever the individual list contains, they want someone who takes the job seriously and is efficient and knowledgeable.

Charisma is the pretty packaging you throw away. I prefer the "craft paper" style of reusable packaging rather than the "wrapped by Fortnums" style, with a logo to tell you about the packer anyway. Charisma, with a few exceptions, is very superficial.

I see Starmer as passionate about working people. It's simple; it works for me. How many times does passion win over charisma? I will need to see the policies nearer the election but so far, so good.

But if the country generally opts for change the Tories would be out anyway. We might have a left wing Labour government that would enable Local authorities to build council properties, make energy provision not for profit, nationalise the railways and water, look after the poor. The alternative is a Labour government that would just look after the rich just like the Tories.

Despite the desperate spin of his place-people and media allies last night and this morning, Labour’s polling has fallen after Keir Starmer’s policy- and vision-free conference speech yesterday – despite bussing in supporters and intimidating dissenters with armed police to create an illusion of popularity – down a point and now eight points behind the Tories. A far cry from the ‘twenty points ahead’ we were guaranteed with ‘anyone but Corbyn’:

The Tories have stood still, despite a disastrous and entirely avoidable fuel crisis, the ongoing pandemic slaughter, the NHS crisis, rising taxes and a host of the usual Johnson-driven fiascos, but the only party to gain – just one point – is the former UKIP, Reform UK.

Keir Starmer’s speech, supposedly his make-or-break moment, is driving voters away to, well, to not voting at all. Such is the visionless and focus-grouped dreariness he delivered – and just as importantly the lack of political substance of the man himself.

And Louise Ellman who accused CLP Jewish members of antisemitism and worked against a labour victory which then should have resulted in a five year ban is welcomed back. It's a funny carry on.

So have a far left Labour Party and keep the Tory government

Rabbitgran

The right wing media have decreed that Starmer is not charismatic but there is always a concerted effort to destroy Labour leaders. Personally I don't look for film star qualities in politicians, I look for expertise, competence and decency. Charisma belongs to politicians like Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and is dangerous. The English sheep in the red wall constituencies will vote according to the orders of the media and are bringing us all down. TV vox pops in Dudley and Retford yesterday had people, mainly women, who do not know who Keir Starmer is and seem proud of this. I do not think this is Keir Starmer's fault. I think that these people probably couldn't name any other member of the government. But we don't know because they weren't asked. There was a male factory worker interviewed who supported Boris Johnson because he is 'one of the lads'. Even the TV reporter was taken aback. The Labour party should get behind their leader and show some loyalty but it won't happen. Unpleasantness, disloyalty and division is not an attractive look. A lot of the Labour left are career activists and don't care about Labour being elected. This inability to compromise is actually a betrayal of working people and a better society.

This is actually a complete fallacy. The right wing media aren't really atacking Starmer. If they were there would be constant reports about all the left wing Jews who have left the party. Instead there is very limited criticism. The object is obvious (watch Ken Loach for a real explanation) the Labour Party is being prepared to be the suitable replacement for the Tories. So when a change is required (and any party holds power for a only limited time) the Labour Party will effectively be a Tory-lite party, so will not challenge big business, the rich or any of the establishment but will just tinker a bit. Effectively we become a one party state controlled by right wing interests but with the appeaance of an elected democracy.

rosie1959

The difference is PippaZ I gave a personal experience I would not attack your character assuming I know all about you that would be rude and unnecessary and would definitely not make sarcastic comments about your political preference.
If you cant see this difference then I may be a Conservative voter but I prefer not to make comments about someone I don't actually know

I am commenting on someone who has told me that they are a Conservative voter. You said you are a person who would never vote other than Conservative. You said this was because you measure parties by what happens personally while those parties are in power. You made it clear you don't work out where the fault really did lay.

I just pointed out that other people, who are likely to see Johnson's time in power as having been very negative personally, may do the same in a year or so's time.

If this were a chat over coffee with friends, I might brush over it and move us on to another subject. However, this is a politics thread which you would think might give you a clue that people take this seriously - or perhaps, like Boris, you don't do "serious" when it concerns others, either?

One day I sincerely hope that Conservative voters who keep Johnson in power will find that telling people this will not go down very well - even with people who know them and can balance that statement. Before that can happen, we have to restore our democracy, but I live in hope.

Rabbitgran

The right wing media have decreed that Starmer is not charismatic but there is always a concerted effort to destroy Labour leaders. Personally I don't look for film star qualities in politicians, I look for expertise, competence and decency. Charisma belongs to politicians like Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and is dangerous. The English sheep in the red wall constituencies will vote according to the orders of the media and are bringing us all down. TV vox pops in Dudley and Retford yesterday had people, mainly women, who do not know who Keir Starmer is and seem proud of this. I do not think this is Keir Starmer's fault. I think that these people probably couldn't name any other member of the government. But we don't know because they weren't asked. There was a male factory worker interviewed who supported Boris Johnson because he is 'one of the lads'. Even the TV reporter was taken aback. The Labour party should get behind their leader and show some loyalty but it won't happen. Unpleasantness, disloyalty and division is not an attractive look. A lot of the Labour left are career activists and don't care about Labour being elected. This inability to compromise is actually a betrayal of working people and a better society.

?????? very well said.

Spot on 'Rabbitgran'.