Labour party conference, is no-one else interested?

Let us remember that the Tories supported the Iraq war but thew Liberal Democrats strongly opposed it.

foxie48

Sadly I feel that people forget what Labour achieved during the Blair/Brown era. The following is a fact checked from Full Fact.

Labour's record on inequality and social mobility: 1997 to 2010
17 June 2019
What was claimed

The largest peacetime investment in public services happened between 1997 and 2010.
Our verdict

Total government spending as a share of the economy increased by 9.6 percentage points, a record compared to any other 13 year period since 1955 (the earliest we have data for).
What was claimed

The average wait for hospital inpatient care fell from over 13 weeks to four weeks between 1997 and 2009.
Our verdict

Correct for England.
What was claimed

There were over 44,000 new doctors in the NHS and 80,000 more nurses between 1997 and 2010.
Our verdict

The total number of FTE qualified nurses working in general practice and NHS hospitals increased by 79,000 and the number of doctors by 48,000.
What was claimed

Teacher numbers rose by 50,000 between 1997 and 2010 and support staff by 200,000.
Our verdict

Correct in England.
What was claimed

By 2010, 76% of pupils in England were achieving five good GCSEs, compared to 45% in 1997.
Our verdict

Correct.
What was claimed

The London Challenge for schools saw the most dramatic improvement in any major capital city anywhere in the world.
Our verdict

The London Challenge scheme did see an improvement in schools in the capital, but we don’t know of any way to benchmark this against schools in other major cities.
What was claimed

In 1999 the Labour government agreed a £2 billion settlement for miners suffering from bronchitis and emphysema. By 2005, 350,000 had received compensation.
Our verdict

The government did agree this settlement, as part of the liability they took on for British Coal. By January 2005, 172,000 claims had been settled and another 180,000 had received a final offer. In total the government expected payouts to miners for industrial injuries (not only from COPD) to total around £7.5 billion.
What was claimed

The Labour government lifted over a million pensioners and a million children out of poverty.
Our verdict

The exact level depends on the measure of poverty you use. Looking at absolute poverty the number of pensioner and children living in poverty both fell by well over a million. Meanwhile the number of pensioners living in relative poverty, after housing costs were accounted for, fell by over a million. The number of children in relative poverty fell by less than a million.
What was claimed

A report shows the poorest 10% of households gained around 13% in their incomes due to tax and benefit changes under Labour, while the richest lost almost 9%.
Our verdict

Correct.
What was claimed

A 2018 OECD report on social mobility showed from 1997 to 2010 found the UK had the largest fall of any nation in immobility and biggest rise in social mobility.
Our verdict

There are various measures in the OECD report. Looking at one of them, this is correct: the likelihood of someone still being in the poorest 20% of people in the UK after four years fell from 56% in the early 1990s to 45% in the early 2010s.
What was claimed

Labour tripled the amount of help to the poorest countries and the UK became the first major developed nation to achieve the 0.7% of GDP aid target.
Our verdict

It’s correct the amount of foreign aid from the UK roughly tripled between 1997 and 2010. The UK was the first country in the G7 or G20 to spend 0.7% of GNI on foreign aid, but this only happened in 2013 - after Labour left office - and several other European countries achieved this earlier.

My question is what did Labour achieve between 1979 - 1997 and 2010 - 2021 when they were out of power? It is not about "policies" it's about trust and the bottom line is not enough voters trust the left wing of the labour party. Blair (and Brown) recognised this and I think Starmer does too.

But, foxie48 IRAQ!

Sadly I feel that people forget what Labour achieved during the Blair/Brown era. The following is a fact checked from Full Fact.

Labour's record on inequality and social mobility: 1997 to 2010
17 June 2019
What was claimed

The largest peacetime investment in public services happened between 1997 and 2010.
Our verdict

Total government spending as a share of the economy increased by 9.6 percentage points, a record compared to any other 13 year period since 1955 (the earliest we have data for).
What was claimed

The average wait for hospital inpatient care fell from over 13 weeks to four weeks between 1997 and 2009.
Our verdict

Correct for England.
What was claimed

There were over 44,000 new doctors in the NHS and 80,000 more nurses between 1997 and 2010.
Our verdict

The total number of FTE qualified nurses working in general practice and NHS hospitals increased by 79,000 and the number of doctors by 48,000.
What was claimed

Teacher numbers rose by 50,000 between 1997 and 2010 and support staff by 200,000.
Our verdict

Correct in England.
What was claimed

By 2010, 76% of pupils in England were achieving five good GCSEs, compared to 45% in 1997.
Our verdict

Correct.
What was claimed

The London Challenge for schools saw the most dramatic improvement in any major capital city anywhere in the world.
Our verdict

The London Challenge scheme did see an improvement in schools in the capital, but we don’t know of any way to benchmark this against schools in other major cities.
What was claimed

In 1999 the Labour government agreed a £2 billion settlement for miners suffering from bronchitis and emphysema. By 2005, 350,000 had received compensation.
Our verdict

The government did agree this settlement, as part of the liability they took on for British Coal. By January 2005, 172,000 claims had been settled and another 180,000 had received a final offer. In total the government expected payouts to miners for industrial injuries (not only from COPD) to total around £7.5 billion.
What was claimed

The Labour government lifted over a million pensioners and a million children out of poverty.
Our verdict

The exact level depends on the measure of poverty you use. Looking at absolute poverty the number of pensioner and children living in poverty both fell by well over a million. Meanwhile the number of pensioners living in relative poverty, after housing costs were accounted for, fell by over a million. The number of children in relative poverty fell by less than a million.
What was claimed

A report shows the poorest 10% of households gained around 13% in their incomes due to tax and benefit changes under Labour, while the richest lost almost 9%.
Our verdict

Correct.
What was claimed

A 2018 OECD report on social mobility showed from 1997 to 2010 found the UK had the largest fall of any nation in immobility and biggest rise in social mobility.
Our verdict

There are various measures in the OECD report. Looking at one of them, this is correct: the likelihood of someone still being in the poorest 20% of people in the UK after four years fell from 56% in the early 1990s to 45% in the early 2010s.
What was claimed

Labour tripled the amount of help to the poorest countries and the UK became the first major developed nation to achieve the 0.7% of GDP aid target.
Our verdict

It’s correct the amount of foreign aid from the UK roughly tripled between 1997 and 2010. The UK was the first country in the G7 or G20 to spend 0.7% of GNI on foreign aid, but this only happened in 2013 - after Labour left office - and several other European countries achieved this earlier.

My question is what did Labour achieve between 1979 - 1997 and 2010 - 2021 when they were out of power? It is not about "policies" it's about trust and the bottom line is not enough voters trust the left wing of the labour party. Blair (and Brown) recognised this and I think Starmer does too.

trisher

Have I actually said I wouldn't vote for the Labour Party? Isn't it funny how those who were slagging Corbyn off now come back with the pathetic excuse that they voted Labour anyway. If you are accusing me of turning people against Labour didn't the same happen under Corbyn? Why was it OK then but not now?
You missed out 2017 on your GE results Annie I wonder why?

You’re doing a damn fine job of persuading everyone else to not vote Labour, though….

You did get an answer from me trisher. Remember, it’s not the policies themselves. I’ll have a look for the thread if you’re interested.
What I’d dump is intransigence and a failure to recognise that the way you go about getting support, the constantly going on about hobby horses, loose cannon leadership, trust etc. All contribute.

Well I have asked before and never got an answer (I don't expect to get one now) but what do you see as the unacceptable far left policies I am supposedly in favour of? In other words what would you agree to ditch to get a Labour government. I am abolutely clear about what I want to see. I've posted it many times. What don't you agree with?
Here goes again- Proper funding and an end to privatisation in the NHS.
A programme of social house building that provides accommodation for the most needy and more regulation of the private sector for rents and landlords.
Utilities, rail and bus services brought into public ownership and run on a not-for profit basis.
The end of zero hours contracts
A proper living wage (£15 per hour)
The establishment of proper funding for the unemployed, long term sick and disabled which is not discriminatory.
That'll do for now. So come on what would you dump?

I didn’t vote Labour under Corbyn in 2019, although I did in 2017 with misgivings. I’ve said that on here before. I was one of the millions who turned away. What I didn’t do was snipe and criticise. He wasn’t for me, I didn’t trust him so I voted for somebody else and kept my mouth shut because it appeared that he had significant support, which of course then dwindled.

I think you misunderstand completely trisher - those of us who are left of centre rather than as left as you are want a Labour Government in power, one that delivers socialist plans in line with what the people of Britain want - not one that delivers what some party members want

Have I actually said I wouldn't vote for the Labour Party? Isn't it funny how those who were slagging Corbyn off now come back with the pathetic excuse that they voted Labour anyway. If you are accusing me of turning people against Labour didn't the same happen under Corbyn? Why was it OK then but not now?
You missed out 2017 on your GE results Annie I wonder why?

Soooo sorry about the spelling error MayBee70.

you wouldn’t vote for a Labour Party led by Keir Starmer even if it meant more years of this vile useless Tory government?

Good point MayBee.

trisher

Ignoring PippaZ
For all those who are posting about how anyone left wing has to shut up and support Starmer can I ask where you were when Corbyn was leader? What happened to supporting the leader then????
And before you rush in and tell me that there would never have been enough support for him anyway, you have absolutely no proof of that. You have a Tory government because you allowed the party then to split and turn on its leader. Now apparently if we criticise Starmer we are being disruptive.
What I actually see is a bunch of left leaning people who think they are somehow superior because they claim to be centrist. The LP shifted massively to the right when Blair was in charge. It never re-established itself. It could do so now if Starmer was brave enough. I don't think he is. The alternative therefore is a party which edges further and further right. Droppng the policies which would change people's lives as it does so.
And I very much question the motives and morals of a man prepared to sign up to 10 promises and to dump several of them within a couple of years. He needed the left to become leader, but he thinks he can manage without them now. So until he indicates that he will keep those promises I will keep criticising.
Party Unity!!!! You make me laugh!

But I actually voted for Corbyn because I have always voted Labour and always will. I assume that, if there was an election tomorrow you wouldn’t vote for a Labour Party led by Keir Starmer even if it meant more years of this vile useless Tory government? Why can’t you hate them more than you hate Keir?

1975 election Michael Foot tory win

1997 election Tony Blair Labour win

2010 election David Cameron tory win

2015 election tory win

2019 election tory win

And on it goes...

Ignoring PippaZ
For all those who are posting about how anyone left wing has to shut up and support Starmer can I ask where you were when Corbyn was leader? What happened to supporting the leader then????
And before you rush in and tell me that there would never have been enough support for him anyway, you have absolutely no proof of that. You have a Tory government because you allowed the party then to split and turn on its leader. Now apparently if we criticise Starmer we are being disruptive.
What I actually see is a bunch of left leaning people who think they are somehow superior because they claim to be centrist. The LP shifted massively to the right when Blair was in charge. It never re-established itself. It could do so now if Starmer was brave enough. I don't think he is. The alternative therefore is a party which edges further and further right. Droppng the policies which would change people's lives as it does so.
And I very much question the motives and morals of a man prepared to sign up to 10 promises and to dump several of them within a couple of years. He needed the left to become leader, but he thinks he can manage without them now. So until he indicates that he will keep those promises I will keep criticising.
Party Unity!!!! You make me laugh!

Alegrias1

Tory supporters come on GN and say either Boris is the best thing since sliced bread, or that he's doing his best, or that they don't really think that Boris is the best PM but they're still Tories.

Labour supporters come on here to rip each other to shreds, blame their current leader for things they want him to say but he has not said, or complain about the former leader's behaviour 30 years ago.

Tories are in power and are re-making this country in their desired image, Labour isn't.

I'll just leave that there.

???

Tory supporters come on GN and say either Boris is the best thing since sliced bread, or that he's doing his best, or that they don't really think that Boris is the best PM but they're still Tories.

Labour supporters come on here to rip each other to shreds, blame their current leader for things they want him to say but he has not said, or complain about the former leader's behaviour 30 years ago.

Tories are in power and are re-making this country in their desired image, Labour isn't.

I'll just leave that there.

?

The People's Assembly

These groups are a good thing change comes from people getting together talking about important issues and wanting change.

Corbyn calls for a more democratic media, at event opposing Tory conference in Manchester

Bin the billionaires: Save the media

Following the interview Corbyn and Younge were joined on stage for the “Bin the billionaires: Save the media” panel discussion by, Emma Jones from Hacked Off, actress Maxine Peake, and We Own It’s Johnbosco Nwogbo.

themeteor.org/2021/10/06/corbyn-calls-for-a-more-democratic-media-at-event-opposing-tory-conference-in-manchester/?fbclid=IwAR228xTk1RcuGDxhFI-ujRYuqENvyaGLPMY9MT8KLqv9h57tQpF7vXGtXiU

Mollygo

Kier’s pledges -a good start.
No.2 Abolish Universal Credit-great idea. I know and work with people who say they can live on UC and others who struggle to survive on it. He doesn’t say how he would replace it and how the replacement would be funded.

No.4 Human rights-which humans?
The LP has already dismissed Female rights in one speech or another.

How about having the decency to spell his name right….

trisher

All we need then is a LP leader who keeps the promises he made when he stood for election keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
Please note No.5 -Common Ownership.

As are you trisher.

I think you two should have a thread of your own.

Anniebach

Agree foxie48

I don't want to upset you Annie, but you are one of the ones who does it.

Kier’s pledges -a good start.
No.2 Abolish Universal Credit-great idea. I know and work with people who say they can live on UC and others who struggle to survive on it. He doesn’t say how he would replace it and how the replacement would be funded.

No.4 Human rights-which humans?
The LP has already dismissed Female rights in one speech or another.

How about just giving him a chance…..

All we need then is a LP leader who keeps the promises he made when he stood for election keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
Please note No.5 -Common Ownership.

Yes, agree too, thanks foxie.