Look at Me

I don’t have a son but Parents of boys have a big part to play in bringing them up from quite small to adolescence and beyond teaching them respect and responsibility. This latest case is one of too many murdered and assaulted women, whose families will for ever mourn.

It is slightly worrying that there is now an erosion of female only spaces at this time.

It’s been obvious for a while that females in advertising, music videos etc are shown to be overtly sexy, more so than men.

Do these predatory men think all other men out there are getting it and due to viewing material on line feel it’s their right . Or even along the lines of she was wearing X so she was asking for it

In my opinion we should all be able to dress as we please regardless of sex, but I am considering whether this is a contributing factor. Not in the Couzens case though as she was not dressed in anything other than appropriate clothing for the time of year.

My son and husband are as far from a misogynist and violent person as you could wish, but they should shoulder their responsibility for what is happening to women and ensure that they call out this misogynistic behaviour wherever they see or hear it.

Men must stop men from such behaviour. It is no longer a laugh or acceptable. We know know that such apparent silly behaviour could lead to much much worse.

Playing a bit of devil's advocate here- what about Couzen's wife, children and extended family?
How is their life going to be connected to this monster?

Was it the men Jane? I wondered if it was the women trying to voice their unease. Probably both to be honest. I find listening to the details too awful.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 you put 50% of the population against the other 50% of the population in one of your previous posts on this thread, what is that if not lumping together?

50% of the population need to take responsibility for the bad amongst them and the violence. Men built the type of society we have as a result of the paternalism and misogyny that we have endured for centuries.

Poor Sarah and her family

I think we need to question why men think its is funny and joke to call their work colleague 'the rapist' to his face and it's all so funny. Then he rapes and kills an innocent woman. The utter shit

Of course our sons I would hope are gentle giants, they are in my sons case.

But if they aren’t born bad, then you rightly ask, what is it that is making them bad.

I would argue culture and the misogyny and paternalism that emanates from that.

I would say porn is a part, and the difficulty people have in believing something is wrong, Sarah's murderer was nicknamed the rapist by colleagues.

Whitewavemark2 you put 50% of the population against the other 50% of the population in one of your previous posts on this thread, what is that if not lumping together?

Whitewavemark2

All men aren’t being lumped together that is daft.

But almost all those committing violence towards women are men.

Culture, paternalism, misogyny are not issues suffered by men.

As a mother of four sons they were brought up to respect women, to treat them as they would their Granny, Auntie, Mother and when their baby sister came along their sister.

The question should be, why are men turned into murderers or rapist, is it online porn, dark web (incels etc) is it because they have been emasculated in some way? Unless they have underlying mental health issues from birth, no man or woman is born bad surely?

All men aren’t being lumped together that is daft.

But almost all those committing violence towards women are men.

Culture, paternalism, misogyny are not issues suffered by men.

But on a thread about the horrific death of a woman the only thing that seems worthy of discussion is the feelings of men.

Whitewavemark2

One of the problems I have (amongst others) with such a theory is that it fails to take culture into account.

If you are going to bring culture into the discussion then the grooming gangs which are predominantly made up of men of Asian origin who have little or no respect for Caucasian young girls, cannot be ignored.

Tip toeing around and delay in investigating these gangs due to their ethnicity led to more girls to be groomed and added to the distress of those who tried to report it to the authorities.

Not all men are predators, if they are all to be lumped together as such I think it would be detrimental for society as a whole.

Which takes me full circle in my argument when looking at what has for generations been a paternalistic society with the criminal law built up throughout that period and attitudes and behaviours accordingly.

One of the problems I have (amongst others) with such a theory is that it fails to take culture into account.

Reductionist means to reduce what is a complex issue or phenomenon if you like, to a simplistic explanation.

So the theory put forward that suggests humans behaviour can be understood animal behaviour fails imo on so many levels.

I've just looked up a dictionary definition of reductionism: "the belief that complex data and phenomena can be explained in terms of something simpler."

So, no, not reductionism. There's nothing simple about hundreds of thousands of years of animal behaviour and evolution.

For those who are intent on refuting the idea that 50% of the population are always in fear of men when out on their own and are told to take mitigation against the danger.

Ask yourselves this, why are they fearful of men?

Who else commits the rapes, violence and murder.

Focusing on the violence committed by men on men is a different issue entirely and to say it isn’t is simply not to understand the issues involved.

Paternalism, misogyny, culture, are amongst the issues that should be under discussion .

The reasons for the gender violences are different and should not be lumped together. To do so is misunderstanding the whole issue.

"the continued violence towards 50% of the population carried out almost exclusively by the other half" Be accurate, or you are rightly accused of hyperbole and exaggeration, which doesn't help your make your point.

The violence is not toward ALL 50% of the population, nor is it by ALL the other 50%. You would have been better to say that a lot of violence is toward people from 50% and by people from the other half.

Whitewavemark2

The problem with such theories is that they are reductionist.

Reductionist is not a term I've ever used. Could you explain what you mean by it, please?

What a terrible case this has been. This should be a case for the resurrection of the death penalty. Why on earth do we have to pay for such monsters to reside in prison.

The problem with such theories is that they are reductionist.

and he did not even need to be tried in court 3nanny6

What do you mean ? Of course he did. That’s the basis of our justice system.

Whitewavemark2

I read it on the BBC site which “fact checked” Starmers speech.

98.4% of rapes charges are not prosecuted.

He should know.

Thanks.