Police that can’t be trusted

I appreciate what you are saying foxie48. That is the problem with DBS, that and possibly making people complacent. That’s why you need a vigorous safeguarding system running alongside. Somewhere that concerns, even the smallest ones can be taken without the person relating being afraid to do so. Afraid of not getting promotion, of being sidelined by colleagues etc. Certainly somewhere where hearing of an officer nicknamed the rapist would raise concern and action.

25Avalon a DBS check looks at the police central records and will show offences and unspent cautions, Couzens didn't have anything on his record. His record could have been checked without a DBS because he was a police officer. Vetting will only show up what is there. police officers will not only have been trained in safeguarding procedures, they (unlike most people) frequently deal with safeguarding issues. Couzens, as far as anyone knows, made inappropriate comments in a WhatsAp group, WhatsAp is an encrypted media and it was a closed group, only members of that group would have known about it until the police had access to Couzen's phone. Actually I should think that those people who had contact with Couzens prior to him joining the MET and were concerned by his behaviour but did nothing are probably feeling rather guilty, I know I would! IMO we all have a responsibility in keeping each other safe.

Sorry but no other group would be treated with such outright contempt as has been shown by Raab and Lammy.

Neen

I actually feel also sorry for all the officers who served with him. How must they feel. Some would have had leisure / personal / holidays with him etc it's a very sad situation all around .

His colleagues called him the 'rapist' as a matter of course, that was the nickname he was given so don't waste time feeling sorry for them they should be bought to book.

Whitewavemark2

Quote from Raab’s speech.

“Misogyny is absolutely wrong, whether it’s a man against a woman, or a woman against a man”

Not the brightest spark in the box.

As Jess Philips said

Jess Phillips MP
@jessphillips
·
6m
Give me strength. Not sure why I'd be surprised he's got form of knowing the square root of naff all.

David Lammy has tweeted on Raab's error Justice Secretary
@DominicRaab doesn't know the definition of misogyny.
No wonder the @Conservatives are hopeless at tackling violence against women and girls.

This is the man who says transwomen probably don't have ovaries but with various procedures and hormone treatment can have a cervix
You have to wonder at the lack of intelligence in a lot of them!

25Avalon I meant trust those other professionals in their roles, not on the streets. Of course the vetting procedure needs to be tightened, starting with not accepting the vetting previously done by another authority. I really don't understand how he was part of a specialist, armed unit without exhaustive checks. A family member is part of a highly specialist, unarmed unit, he and his entire extended family were subject to 6 months of background checks.

I dont have grandchildren but I always told my children to go into a shop and speak to a female worker.

Rosie the problem is that this seems to be endemic in the police force. There are plenty of good decent officers but until they get a proper vetting and safeguarding protocol in place there may be doubt. Policemen are usually in uniform and recognisable whilst Doctors, teachers etc outside are not. As a teacher if you post inappropriate photos or make offensive remarks on social media you can lose your job. Why didn’t this happen with Couzens?

25Avalon Would you tell your gc if you are lost ask a policeman? Sadly probably not. well yes I do. I trust a policeman more than some random stranger. Do you not trust doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, priests, I could go on?

Thanks for your informative post Iam64. I also think that because he transferred from Kent police to the Met, there would have been no further checks made. Perhaps that should be standard, that checks are made even when transferring between areas.

Whitewavemark2 Raab should have used misandry as well as misogyny, but what annoys me more is that not one single political party would make misogyny a hate crime. Why their female members accept this is unfathomable.

At least 26 Met officers have committed sex crimes in the past 5 years including rape, possessing indecent images of children and voyeurism. This has been revealed under The Freedom of Information Act. Couzens is not a one off.

Some officers have not been vetted for over 20 years. Why not? If you wok with children as a football volunteer you have to have a DBS every 3 years and there are paid safeguarding officers you can go to with any concerns. The police need to put their house in order or have it done for them if they are to earn back our trust. Would you tell your gc if you are lost ask a policeman? Sadly probably not. Trust has to be rebuilt.

Lindsay Hoyle is demanding a meeting with top met officials regarding safety from officers at the H of P. Not so long ago a police officer heroically gave his life there protecting mps from a terrorist attack. They owe it to him and every decent police officer to sort this out.

Quote from Raab’s speech.

“Misogyny is absolutely wrong, whether it’s a man against a woman, or a woman against a man”

Not the brightest spark in the box.

As Jess Philips said

Jess Phillips MP
@jessphillips
·
6m
Give me strength. Not sure why I'd be surprised he's got form of knowing the square root of naff all.

I’m not diminishing the concerns leading to the nickname but the timeline shouldn’t be forgotten.
The rapist nickname was three years before he joined the Met. He was working in a civil nuclear protection unit. His behaviour made female colleagues uncomfortable. This wasn’t known to the Met when he was appointed by them.
It would appear no formal complaints were made or investigated.
I heard former employees complain difficulties in getting staff led to a deterioration in the quality of new appointees, like WC. Some of whom them found it easier to move eg to the Met.

The reports he used vile pornography came even earlier when he worked at a garage.
There appear to have been a number of incidents when he exposed himself at a drive in McDonald’s. Only one staff member complained to the police, in the weeks preceding the murder of Sarah. . I’m not sure whether that investigation had progressed.

All these red flags are significant and should have led to investigation had they been known. Dare we hope the enquiry will inform future practice

His work nickname was literally “The Rapist”. They already knew what he was.

I actually feel also sorry for all the officers who served with him. How must they feel. Some would have had leisure / personal / holidays with him etc it's a very sad situation all around .

Whitewavemark2

Remember this? She was in the vigil for Sarah.

Yes they went in mob-handed at a peaceful vigil then a few weeks later stood back and allowed Wembley to be mobbed.

My worry is the Met reflects society. Misogyny, racism, homophobia and other forms of bigotry are seen throughout our society.
As has been seen frequently on grandnet, women can be as judgemental and critical of other women and girls.

Cynically though how many times have we heard the party line ' lessons will be learned' How many millions have been spent on groups/quangos to investigate criminal behaviour and nothing changes.
The misogynistic culture in the Met and other forces is systemic and I can't see much changing sadly.

M0nica

The big problem is that the police are still predominantly white men, with all the societal attitudes that go with that.

Police services should reflect the areas they serve. What is needed is a far more diverse police force where 40% plus are women and in London a similar number should come from other ethnic groups. Outside London the ethnic mix could be lower.

The vetting procedure should be far more stringent and any officer suspected of a crime should immediately be suspended on full pay, not just put in a back office job until he is charged or when exonerated , returns to front line work.

Think they are doing this with their equity programme.

Scentia

*when in reality they are as disgusted by his actions as everyone else*
Oldwoman but they weren’t were they, they knew he had form and was a pervert but they ignored it.

Some of them, not all.

Granny gravy, I accept the physical power imbalance but women officers are as good as the men when it comes to calming situations. (Or as bad )

Whilst I agree that in principle more female officers is a good idea, in practical terms is it possible for a female to arrest a large strapping male, break up a fight, apprehend a husband in a domestic violence scenario? They need to be partnered with a male for their own safety.

Why would non-European officers have to have the standards dropped, Monica?

Sarnia I've sent you a private message.

I think there is a fine line to be trod between giving undue leeway to one applicant because he fits a profile and rejecting a good candidate because they do not.

We do not want the next scandal to involve non-European officers in the force going wrong and then finding that they would never have been accepted, had they not been non-European and vetting standards had been dropped for them.