MaizieD
Lucca
Maizie, I apologise you are right.
Really it's just a perfect illustration of why the government is getting away with their suppression of democracy. Sidelining...
Be interesting to know how many posters so far have actually read the Freedland piece Dinahmo linked to?
Hands up, Miss! 
Johnson is a conman and a mess,but clever in manipulation, I recognise the type, I was married to one
Lucca
I just did. There are technical bits I don’t fully understand I admit but the general premise is clear and alarming. I have never bought into the Boris “charming tousle haired clown” facade. He is in my view a ruthless character.
TBH, I was pretty sure you would have read it *Lucca
Sorry that was in reply to Maizie.
I just did. There are technical bits I don’t fully understand I admit but the general premise is clear and alarming. I have never bought into the Boris “charming tousle haired clown” facade. He is in my view a ruthless character.
Lincslass
nanna8
I think our freedoms have been subtly eroded over the last 20 years or so and very few people seem to care. Our latest is compulsory vaccines against Covid. I agree that it is a good idea to be vaccinated but making it compulsory in order to travel, work or even enter a restaurant is a step too far. Sometimes it feels lovely me we are back in wartime’s. We have a curfew here at 9 pm which is totally disgusting but we all roll over and accept it.
Good job you don’t live in the EU then, or Wales or Scotland where vaccine passports are the norm.
Is this just your part of Australia nanna or the whole country?
Every country in the world is doing something different to keep things under control and some countries are unfortunately more draconian than others.
On the subject of democracy....I think people are panicking with every newspaper column in The Guardian that they read.
The beauty of our democracy is that every few years we have an GE and can boot out any Party in charge.
Lucca
Maizie, I apologise you are right.
Really it's just a perfect illustration of why the government is getting away with their suppression of democracy. Sidelining...
Be interesting to know how many posters so far have actually read the Freedland piece Dinahmo linked to?
Maizie, I apologise you are right.
Hetty58
nanna8, making vaccination compulsory for certain jobs, activities - or travel - is not 'compulsory vaccination' is it?
People can still choose whether to have it or not. I'm all in favour of protecting the vulnerable, even if it limits the freedoms of those who don't want to be vaccinated.
Hear hear.
Nanna8
Curfew at 9 is to try and get the pandemic under control for heavens sake. Would you prefer it to go on for so long that those of use wishing to visit our family i Australia just won’t be able to ?
I think the reason that there isn’t more worry about the way our Democratic processes are being eroded is because those who support the Tories can’t separate the two and therefore don’t understand that they won’t have a Tory party of the sort they have always supported in the future if they don’t question what is happening.
Hetty58
nanna8, making vaccination compulsory for certain jobs, activities - or travel - is not 'compulsory vaccination' is it?
People can still choose whether to have it or not. I'm all in favour of protecting the vulnerable, even if it limits the freedoms of those who don't want to be vaccinated.
Any chance of starting a separate thread for this discussion? Dinahmo has started a really important topic and you are sidelining it within the first few posts.
It isn't just in parliament though is it? It happens at town council level. We have had conservative councillors on paid committees voting against the people they are supposed to represent. How on earth are they getting away with it?
nanna8, making vaccination compulsory for certain jobs, activities - or travel - is not 'compulsory vaccination' is it?
People can still choose whether to have it or not. I'm all in favour of protecting the vulnerable, even if it limits the freedoms of those who don't want to be vaccinated.
What concerns me more than anything is the sidelining of parliament. Parliament, deeply unsatisfactory though it can be, is at the heart of our democracy, it is the sovereign power. I have posted about it on Gnet year after year for the past 5 years and no-one seems to have a clue or take the slightest bit of interest. Sovereign power lies with parliament, not with the government. One of the functions of parliament is to prevent governments having excessive powers. The tory's big majority and their complete disregard of parliamentary conventions has completely destroyed this function.
We no longer live in a parliamentary democracy, we live in a dictatorship.
I think the policy on vaccination passports is a diversion from the underlying issues. There are far worse freedoms being eroded, which will last longer than the pandemic.
Do you have no jab no job there as well? Includes teachers, building workers, plumbers, electricians etc as well as health workers who obviously need it.
nanna8
I think our freedoms have been subtly eroded over the last 20 years or so and very few people seem to care. Our latest is compulsory vaccines against Covid. I agree that it is a good idea to be vaccinated but making it compulsory in order to travel, work or even enter a restaurant is a step too far. Sometimes it feels lovely me we are back in wartime’s. We have a curfew here at 9 pm which is totally disgusting but we all roll over and accept it.
Good job you don’t live in the EU then, or Wales or Scotland where vaccine passports are the norm.
Nezumi 65
I wish Labour, Lib Dems & Greens - even SNP & Plaid would get together for one election. An agreement that they would work together to introduce electoral reform & then another election. FPTP is meant to prevent extremism - but relies on the current Party not turning extreme. The warnings were there when the hideous Katie Hopkins celebrated Johnson’s win by shouting about ‘Boris’ blue collar army’.
I agree with you 100%. FPTP is undemocratic and representative democracy means little when an MP can be elected by receiving a majority party vote even though more individuals voted against them in total by voting for other parties.
Why do so called moderate Tories continue to support their leaders even though they express such disquiet? This is precisely the activity that leads to dictatorship and we know where that may lead.
Meanwhile the trade unions have been complicit in preventing Labour from moving towards PR. As a committed trade unionist I was surprised that this may be the case.
IMO, we are living through dangerous times where rights are quietly removed with little organised opposition.
Yes compulsory vaccination worries me as well. Particularly when vaccination damage is routinely dismissed. I have had hep B and Covid jabs this year btw to put personal context to the comment!
Lovely me = like we - see they are even changing our words!
I think our freedoms have been subtly eroded over the last 20 years or so and very few people seem to care. Our latest is compulsory vaccines against Covid. I agree that it is a good idea to be vaccinated but making it compulsory in order to travel, work or even enter a restaurant is a step too far. Sometimes it feels lovely me we are back in wartime’s. We have a curfew here at 9 pm which is totally disgusting but we all roll over and accept it.
Where have all the sensible Tories gone? I have tried to explore the views of moderate, sensible Tories that I know and whilst they don’t like Boris Johnson or this current government (which says something - isn’t Johnson meant to be socially liberal?) they don’t appear to see that they’re the ones with the power to get rid of this man. Frankly no-one in the Tory Party is going to give a damn if I say I won’t vote Tory, but they would cate about a strong message from the grassroots.
I wish Labour, Lib Dems & Greens - even SNP & Plaid would get together for one election. An agreement that they would work together to introduce electoral reform & then another election. FPTP is meant to prevent extremism - but relies on the current Party not turning extreme. The warnings were there when the hideous Katie Hopkins celebrated Johnson’s win by shouting about ‘Boris’ blue collar army’.
Certainly going to be some interesting future history essays about this.
The legislation that is most useful in protecting the rights of my severely disabled son - the Human Rights Act & Judicial Review is in the process of being ripped up. I have used reminders of both in the last few years to protect aspects of his basic rights. A warning to all - you don’t want to get disabled or sick under this lot of those safeguards are removed.
I've been aware of and been concerned about this for a while Dinahmo. It worries that me that most people don't really seem aware of what's been going on behind the stories about Carrie's wallpaper, Matt's wandering hands or Dom's eyesight test. Understandably, they're more concerned about the everyday realities such as rising fuel prices, care homes and, of course, the pandemic.
It's maybe no coincidence that Johnson studied classics and knows all about the "bread and circuses" tricks of the later Roman emperors.
I sometimes wonder about the essay titles future students of politics and history will be set about the times we're living through.
Who remembers the supreme court voting 11-0 against Johnson's unlawful suspension of parliament back in 2019? I do. It actually brought tears to my eyes listening to Lady Hale's speech (she of the spider brooch). Johnson wants to reform judicial review.
Who remembers the £1 billion fund set up in order to help struggling towns? 39 of the 45 towns selected are in Tory constituencies, some of them being adjacent to poorer towns. Could the reason be to make the sitting MP popular so that he or she will keep their seat at the next election?
Our Parliament grew from the assemblies created in the Middle Ages that then became councils that were called by kings for the purpose of redressing grievances and for exercising judicial functions. In time, Parliament began to deal with important matters of state, notably the raising of revenues needed to support the policies and decisions of the monarch. As its judicial functions were increasingly delegated to courts, it gradually evolved into a legislative body. By the end of the 15th century, the English system displayed some of the basic features of modern parliamentary government.
Our ancestors fought a war and executed a king because of the conflict between king and parliament. Our democracy has developed over the centuries since then. One of the reasons for Brexit was taking back control of our country (whatever that meant). It now seems as though Johnson is trying to limit the democratic controls as currently exercised and he could well succeed given the venality of some of the current govt.
The following is a link to the article in the Guardian by Jonathan Freedland which prompted me to write the above. I was aware of the proposed actions as I'm sure many of you are too. To those of you who don't read the Guardian, please have a quick look at the article.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/01/boris-johnson-rigging-the-system-power-courts-protest-elections
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