Covid: UK start to pandemic worst public health failure ever, MPs say

We have got to look at this. There are lessons to be learnt. I was not in favour of having an enquiry during the pandemic as some were but I think the timing is now right. This is not about what other leaders may or may not have done in similar circumstances but about what actually happened.

Regarding the NHS it is always a problem as new sophisticated and expensive medical treatments are discovered. Can we afford to treat everyone and everything? There is not a bottomless pit of money whoever is in power but we should not be running our NHS down to a shoestring. You are right Sarnia about extraneous staff. This first stated with reorganisation in 1974. The new office of Regional Works Officer saw a person come in from private industry on a high salary who was permitted to spend as much fitting out his one room office as would have fitted out a whole ward!

One major beef I had from the start, was that we were never nearly tough enough about masks.

Far too many people who just didn’t feel like wearing one - (how many of us ever actually liked it?) could say they were exempt, and nobody could challenge them.

Even at the height of the first lockdown, hardly anyone except me and the bloke on the till, ever wore a mask in our local corner shop, and nobody ever said a word. I simply refuse to believe that they were all - or even a quarter of them - were genuinely exempt.

On a visit to France during summer 2020 I saw ‘Masks Obligatory’ signs outside a lot of shops and e.g. motorway services, no fannying about with ‘please….’

The only place I’ve ever seen such a sign here was on the door of a local pharmacy. ‘No mask, no entry.’

Right, there's this.

The report from yesterday is an internal parliamentary report from two internal parliamentary bodies. Johnson et al have consistently avoided any commitment to an independent Public Enquiry.

In Scotland, we're going to have an independent Public Enquiry before the end of this year. Independent. So you won't have to wait too long for a proper enquiry GG13, certainly not as long as you'll have to in England. And given that about 50% of the members of the committees who complied the latest report are actually Conservative, we'll all be waiting to see what an independent inquiry says. This'll look quite friendly in comparison, I think.

I expect the independent Scottish enquiry will highlight the issues in the Scottish response, primarily returning people to care homes, I suspect. Or perhaps they'll say the same as the commentator on the report on radio yesterday, who said that Scotland's response had been better than the general UK one all the way down the line, but they were hobbled and restrained by the UK-wide rules.

Deflection, indeed.

It is clear, there is going to be a UK wide inquiry, which will include all the nations of the UK. In the early days of the pandemic all the devolved governments followed the UK Government guidance. Although the initial report concentrates on England, it refers to the other nations as well, and is relevant to all of them as it is about UK Government actions and response. Health is devolved, but there has been a lot of all UK work on Covid management. It’s massively complicated, but the decisions made by the devolved governments will be included in the UK report, the aim being to evaluate which strategies have worked best.

I am looking forward to the full judicial enquiry that the bereaved are calling for.

This report is “in-house”

We need an independent report with the full force of the law that enables the judiciary to have sight of all the necessary data.

If of course the government hasn’t got rid of some of it.

That is something else that needs looking at.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1

The report primarily concerns the response in England.

Squirming and complaining about the devolved nations won't help you here.

I guess we'll find out when we have a proper Public Enquiry in Scotland at the end of the year, instead of marking our own homework.

I am neither squirming or complaining just asking a valid question regarding the First Ministers of two devolved nations of the U.K.

Tone, GG13, tone.

Having contributed nothing to the discussion about the report you then come up with some whataboutery. It looks like an attempt at deflection, I'm afraid.

Not at all, I posted (16.14 yesterday) my thoughts.

I think it’s good that England has not only compiled a report but released it so quickly, I look forward to seeing the devolved nations reports in due course…

Whitewavemark2

One of the biggest factors was the fact that the government had cut funds to the NHS year on year since it took office in 2010. All the good done by Labour was totally undone.

Staff shortages are the biggest issue and nothing is being done even now to mitigate this crises.

I worked for the NHS for 17 years before the pandemic. You have hit the nail on the head siting staff shortages. They were crippling the NHS pre-Covid so I have nothing but admiration for those 'up the sharp end' who have battled this damn virus for so long. The Tories have cut budgets but also are far too keen on filling hospitals up with management on eye-watering salaries while nurses and midwives see their measly pay either frozen or given a grudging 1% rise. Cull most of the management and increase the workers!!!

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1

The report primarily concerns the response in England.

Squirming and complaining about the devolved nations won't help you here.

I guess we'll find out when we have a proper Public Enquiry in Scotland at the end of the year, instead of marking our own homework.

I am neither squirming or complaining just asking a valid question regarding the First Ministers of two devolved nations of the U.K.

Tone, GG13, tone.

Having contributed nothing to the discussion about the report you then come up with some whataboutery. It looks like an attempt at deflection, I'm afraid.

Alegrias1

Fair enough, I apologise to you GG13.

?

Fair enough, I apologise to you GG13.

Alegrias1

The report primarily concerns the response in England.

Squirming and complaining about the devolved nations won't help you here.

I guess we'll find out when we have a proper Public Enquiry in Scotland at the end of the year, instead of marking our own homework.

I am neither squirming or complaining just asking a valid question regarding the First Ministers of two devolved nations of the U.K.

lemongrove

It isn’t clear on that point at all whitewave ! That is simply your take on it.

I really really hope you are right Lemongrove, surely nobody wants full privatisation.

It isn’t clear on that point at all whitewave ! That is simply your take on it.

As long as Sturgeon and pals aren’t running the inquiry of course....

GrannyGravy13

Health is totally devolved.

Are Ms.Sturgeon and Mr.Drakeford going to be held to account and their actions/reactions to the Pandemic analysed?

I live in England, why waste effort on something I can’t change?

R4 this morning on health service. It is clear that the Tories are intent on full privatisation.

4-5 years wait for hip operations.

The report primarily concerns the response in England.

Squirming and complaining about the devolved nations won't help you here.

I guess we'll find out when we have a proper Public Enquiry in Scotland at the end of the year, instead of marking our own homework.

Probably not on GN GG13 ...It’s only the Conservative government that can ever be held to account

Health is totally devolved.

Are Ms.Sturgeon and Mr.Drakeford going to be held to account and their actions/reactions to the Pandemic analysed?

But Johnson is a Conservative and business and the economy comes first. The people are only there to serve, quite expendable. What did you think? No mere disease was going to stop that, chin up boys, jolly good show.

There is so much footage popping up now that shows that the government was absolutely aware of the issues and crises about to happen. They knew that they should lockdown and take other measures but failed to do so.

There is no doubt in my mind that they are culpable of manslaughter.

There is so much footage popping up now that shows that the government was absolutely aware of the issues and crises about to happen. They knew that they should lockdown and take other measures but failed to do so.

There is no doubt in my mind that they are culpable of manslaughter.

Kim19 I’m not sure court cases will do much good for the simple reason it’s only when someone has dependents that much is paid out, and most were dependent rather than having dependents. It will just go on for ever. I think recognition is probably more important than money. After my son died we were paid a small sum but it wasn’t money we wanted. We wanted to hear lessons had been learnt and steps would be taken to improve the situation in future. In reality it didn’t happen. In this case perhaps it will.

I think there will be many court cases resulting from these conclusions. I don't know how a .monetary value can be put on a life but I daresay there is a legal way.

This Government was in power and must take responsibility. So many of us took precautions before they did. They just didn’t seem to realise how serious it was. Growstuff is right.It was only when the pictures came through from Italy and even then it took 4 days to lock down.

It's the desire of a group to reach a consensus and the unwillingness of participants to speak out in case there's pressure on the consensus. It can mean that there's no critical evaluation and discussion of contentious issues. People in groups want to fit in and don't want to be seen as difficult.