We are watching the demise of the NHS with our eyes wide open.

Having worked in the NHS it is my belief that you could give the NHS every single bit of taxpayer money and it still wouldnt work. The problem is NOT lack of money. This is a cop out invented by politicians so that they can evade responsibility and push the blame onto the public who dont want to pay more in taxes.

The problem is that the whole system was conceived for a post 2nd world war country which doesnt exist any more. In 1948 people didnt 'bother the doctor', partly because many ailments couldnt be treated anyway. Large numbers of working people died in their 60s or 70s, there were very few allergies, hardly any asthma or diabetes, very little obesity, far fewer mental health problems. People didnt live for decades with serious illness, they died in short order.

If you were one of the very few who were educated to the level required to be a medic you treated your profession as a vocation. Our family doctors in the 1950s were a husband and wife team serving the entire village who turned out day or night, 24/7 whenever a patient needed them. People thought differently and acted differently. No one would have made an appointment with doctor and not turned up, nor would they have questioned the doctors opinion, nor called them out for a minor problem.

The whole system needs to be abandoned and re-invented for the 21st century. Root and branch.

If the NHS is underesourced Casdon, have you any idea how much it would cost to resource it adequately and how should the money be managed?
i once lived in a leafy town in Herts. there was a very large middle class population. I was a member of the national Houewives Register ( now we are Growing old disgracefully) and I will always recall some very well spoken members going on indignantly about their GP refusing a presecription for TixyLix ( childs cough medicine) I had been living in PNG for many years so i was quite unused to asking a doctor for that or for paracetamol, so i asked why they did not just buy it from the chemist. I got a lecture about their rights to medicines being prescribed. Now i know that some poor people do need such meds prescribed but these women were not poor and I think it is a disgrace to ask for free prescriptions for over the counter medication if you can afford to buy it. I feel the same about people pie into A&E for minor ailments. But then I am someone who lived in places where we had no doctors but nurses on the Missionary set up in a nearby village. We just generally waited for a few days to see if minor ailments went away before we asked the Doctor over the radio if we needed to fly or boat to a town where there were doctors. But we we were much younger and our youngest child was only 2 and he only had one serious bout of malaria which was scary. the people I feel most sorry for are thise suffering from extremely serious illnesses who really do need to be examined and possibly referred to a consultant before it is too late. That is awful.

I worked in the NHS too SunnySusie, and that is not my opinion at all. The NHS is constantly reorganised to ‘make it better’. What politicians want the public to believe is that it’s being reorganised because it isn’t performing well. Actually that is a smokescreen for them not having an understanding of the issues and thinking tinkering round the edges and badging it as reorganisation will put the public off the scent. They think the public is stupid and doesn’t realise what they are doing.

Yes I have Anniel, it would take years to bring it back to the standard of 10 years ago, and a lot of money year on year. Here’s a simple fact check done by Channel 4 a couple of years ago, but there is lots of information online about the funding crisis if you (or anybody else) is interested.
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-generous-have-the-conservatives-been-with-the-nhs

That's the lying, corrupt incompetent Tories for you, and yet knowing this, people still voted for them!

Year on year the Tories are destroying the NHS and the elderly and sick who depend on it

Shropshirelass

A lot of pressure is put on the NHS by peoples lifestyle choices. A lot of illnesses are fuelled by unhealthy eating, obesity is rising and it proves this. This must be tackled at the roots and until people start looking after themselves properly then the NHS will struggle, just pumping in more money is not the answer. Incorrect dietary guidelines given by the Governments over the last forty years must be addressed. Smoking and high alcohol consumption are also a drain on resources. NHS should be for genuine illnesses and accidents, not self inflicted illnesses.

How very condescending.
Being obese, which seems to be the favoured term for those who think it's less offensive than saying someone is fat - it's not, by the way - is not a lifestyle choice.
How dare you, or BJ and his 'on yer bike' campaign suggest that it is.

FranT

That's the lying, corrupt incompetent Tories for you, and yet knowing this, people still voted for them!

I don't know how they ever manage to get into no. 10. They support the interests of such a small minority yet somehow the Great British Public are still blinded by their lies. I can only think that people still believe in the old style class sysyem and want to see themselves as middle class.

The fact is we don't have a National health service any more. We have various trusts, community trusts, etc and there is no continuity of service between any of them. In our local Community Hospital there are 2 information systems for patients records and they are not accessible to both strands of the services that hospital provides. It is ludicrous because sometimes, you get seen at an appointment and then return when they have sent for the required information they need. The amount of paperwork sent through the post is astounding in this day and age. We should all be able to opt in for paperless mail.
Doctors and nurses spend hours writing up care plans which have limited use especially when nurses can't be helping patients at that point. Everything moves at a snails pace in A&E and the number of staff needed to assist with drunks is just ridiculous. Set up a drunk tank and let them take their chances there so they aren't taking up valuable nursing care in the hospitals.
I have every sympathy with the Dr's and Nurses trying to deal with their workload and I think we expect far too much from it. We need to refine what we want from our NHS and look at how we can deliver this in the most effective way. Every Government, no matter what their political persuasion, tinkers around the edges and nothing ever gets better.

Thanks Casdon, I acknowledge the decrease since the Tories took office. However, we must factor in the staggering costs of the Pandemic which has seriously affected the treasury. I hate to say it but there will be a period of wait and see. I do think there are some people here who simply do not understand the reason why the Tories have such a big majority. Ordinary people are generally, antiwoke, anti trans and certainly did not warm up to Jeremy Corbyn. He was elected leader because of a mistake in calcuation by Ed Miliband. My own MP had no intention of voting for Corbyn and some labour MPs were horrified by that result. Then when the BLM eruption happened over the killing of George Floyd, when Sir Keir took the knee in his office. I understood why but like it or not, his values are not as one with ordinary working class values and many people did not see it as necessary. Do you all recall Emily Thornberry sneering at white van man and his St George flag? Ordinary working people feel that they are disregarded by the metropolitan left. Surely, you saw that the Guardian sacked Suzanne Moore because she insisted only women have a cervix and that Sir Keir could not bring himself to to use "woman"when interviewed by Andrew Marr. Do you all think the majority of voters support that view of a tiny minority? I accept that most of you are labour voters, but I am not sure of how many of you grew up in social housing with parents who struggled financially and had not had the benefit of a good education. They were happy to see their children move up the ladder educationally and financially. It seems that the labour vote depends on well educated, left leaning people such as some members here. I cannot know, but people like me who openly admit to being Conservative seem to be in the minority. However, i am surprised that some people who write here seem not to understand the working class voter who supports Conservatism. Just read the broadsheets and most commentators, even those on the left, do not see Labour as winning a majority in the next election. If you cannot accept that Angela Rayner using "Tory Scum" and Jeremy Corbyn supporting Claudia Webbe offends normal people and does not win votes, then that is a problem!

Pouring money at the NHS is not the answer, it ends up being used on employing hugely expensive consultants to do the projects that the senior managers ought to be able to do themselves but lack the qualifications or experience to do so. They also throw money at IT systems that are not fit for purpose and end up being cancelled after wasting millions on them. They should look more closely at who they promote, being an excellent doctor, nurse, or other clinician does not automatically make a good manager, especially without the relevant training. Most of the senior managers I had
the misfortune to work for would not have lasted five minutes in private industry.

The NHS is a money pit and throwing more money at it won’t solve the problem. I too have worked on the NHS and see the overstaffing, the sideways promotions and the reluctant to ever dismiss staff especially on the admin side.
I recently visited the ENT outpatients dept of our local hospital. There were two consultants and four nurses and four patients and still a lengthy wait.
The NHS needs a major overhaul. It’s outdated and fails on so many levels.

As an add on I don’t think it’s a surfeit of expensive consultants it’s a surfeit of expensive managers.

Oh dear,oh dear, oh dear...

NHS on its way out is clearly a popular move...

Annie1 I'm a working class voter from a manual work/working class background. Father a mechanic. Mother a cleaner. I went to a comprehensive school.

I don't understand why working class people vote conservative. Presumably we are the class of people who most need state support in terms of education, healthcare, pensions, care and benefits whether in work or unemployed. Having seen the Conservative party take all these resources apart over the last 10 years I cannot understand how anyone who relies on the state can vote for them.

My family was poor and struggled. I've had no advantages but have done ok and now I vote for a party who I think will ensure that others who follow in my footsteps will have a better chance.

I'm sorry Angela Rayner said Tory Scum...but I understand how angry she must have been to say it.

27Elvis58 it is not middle management that is overblown in the NHS it is the senior managers who live in their ivory towers and simply take credit for the hard work carried out by tbe middle managers and their staff

Rosalyn69

As an add on I don’t think it’s a surfeit of expensive consultants it’s a surfeit of expensive managers.

Who do you think should organise things Rosalyn69? A couple of cheap students on work experience?

So interesting to read all this as we in the US are being sold the advantages of NH.

Durga

So interesting to read all this as we in the US are being sold the advantages of NH.

Grab it with both hands!

It improved outcomes for so many in,our society, and is/ was one of the most efficient ways of delivering health care.

Not enough GPs so the money should go towards training more.
I fear the benefits system is going the same way too many fraudulent claims.

Hello Scones!. I was pleased that you replied and I understand your point of view. You surely acknowledge that Tony Blair did change the labour party and it became almost Conservative in its policies. I think it is rather sweeping to say that the Tories ruined everything that Tony Blair put in place., in fact I hear that labour worries that Boris Johnson has used some labour policies so finding stuff to oppose is more difficult. I confess my views are probably very influenced by the fact that my parents and married sister decided to emigrate from Liverpool to Australia in 1949. I had won a scholarship to a grammar school and never wanted to go, but my life in Australia and in PNG probably changed my political outlook. My parents and my sister and family always voted labour as did my grandparents. I recall my grand dad asking one Conservaitive in the entire family "what have you got to conserve?" to roars of laughter from the rest of my extensive family in Liverpool. So I do have some understanding of why people would vote Labour. However, Brexit changed everything. Brexiteers belonged largely to the working class (only my opinion) but I think it was more to do with a feeling of English patriotism rather than of economics that drove that vote. You could also argue that the older demographic also drove the vote. Jeremy Corbyn was at heart a brexiteer, but the party lead by well educated members wanted to remain so he had a dilemma and could not give any definitive lead. I am sure that is why Boris got an 80 seat majority. This may not last, but I do not think Labour will win the next election. Surely you acknowledge that many working class people who are employed sometimes have little sympathy for the unemployed, they dislike the amount of crime among young people in their areas. I should know as I spent most of my London working life working in local govt. as a housing officer and I visited tenants all the time and heard their views, which could be described as rather right wing! However, they did vote Labour as that was they always did. So we need to look at why the Conservatives remain popular and I think about this as much as you do, I think the Labour party needs a leader with lots of personality and leadership qualities. Sadly, Sir Keir is not that type of leader. Andy Burnham would be better. I admit it is a amazing that Boris is popular but having worked closely on the street with him when he was running for Mayor, he seems to be able to talk to all kinds of people and to make them laugh. Things will change and maybe he will stand down ...but even then, like Labour, we do not have a sure fire winner.I fancy Liz Truss myself ..who knows? You and I could chat happily as I confess all my younger friends vote labour but we stay friends! I am sure we would be the same!

Bring back State Enrolled Nurse or equivalent to take the pressure off State Registered Nurses. Less time to train an SEN. Same with Doctors they need assistants to do their menial tasks. When the NHS started there wasn’t the variety of treatments which have grown beyond belief. The NHS can’t keep up. Plus the population is growing so quickly. Plus I think we need GP hubs, where they can do imagining and blood tests. Instead of going to the hospitals. Just a thought.

melp1

Not enough GPs so the money should go towards training more.
I fear the benefits system is going the same way too many fraudulent claims.

Do you have anything to back up your claim that there are too many fraudulent benefit claims?

Our health centre was given to a company at the start of the pandemic. Now you have difficulty just getting an answer on the phone. We also are not allowed to register with any of the practices nearby . So we're stuck with very little health provision. I'm voting SNP the next time.

Annie1 You know, I do think we would get on like a house on fire. I do agree with you about the Brexit patriotism and I had a good laugh at your granddad's comment. So funny and so probably hit the nail right on the head. Let's hope we get a fantastic leader from any party who will pull the country together and on to great things.