Brexit is dead, it is no more, it has ceased to be - because it has happened. We have withdrawn from the European Union

Alegrias1

I'd be more inclined to believe that site Lincslass if it hadn't tried to send a virus to my PC while simultaneously promoting a Christmas decorative coin featuring a buffed Santa.

Oh. It told me I'd won a reward for being an xbillionth google searcher. Took me ages to get past that...?

Lincslass

Kali2

PippaZ is just giving her opinion on your post. Fair enough, no.

The irony is, that Brexit Deal is probably about to fall flat on its face and be cancelled by the EU- if arti 16 is triggered. I know very few people who voted for a Brexit without Single market, without Customs Union, and without a Deal at all = total isolation and totaly outside control of all imports and exports + massive tarifs.

Actually don’t think Germany will let that happen. Macron has already been slapped down by rest of EU as regarding his bully boy tactics over loss of small amount of fishing permits.

Hmm ... not so sure. The mainland European press knows about Article 16 and isn't impressed by the shenanigans. For many, it's a matter of principle. The UK is seen as going back on its word and questions are being asked whether it can be trusted.

The new German chancellor is due to take over from Merkel soon and it will be interesting to see what he does.

Lincslass

newsviewsmedia.com/2021/10/25/humiliation-for-macron-as-eu-slaps-down-his-aggressive-anti-uk-statement-on-fishing-rights/

I think you should have linked to the original story, Lincslass
Linking to a euro badged page (with extremely annoying and intrusive ads) makes it look less biased than it actually is.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10082309/Humiliation-Macron-EU-slaps-aggressive-anti-UK-statement-fishing-rights.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490

I'd be more inclined to believe that site Lincslass if it hadn't tried to send a virus to my PC while simultaneously promoting a Christmas decorative coin featuring a buffed Santa.

newsviewsmedia.com/2021/10/25/humiliation-for-macron-as-eu-slaps-down-his-aggressive-anti-uk-statement-on-fishing-rights/

Kali2

PippaZ is just giving her opinion on your post. Fair enough, no.

The irony is, that Brexit Deal is probably about to fall flat on its face and be cancelled by the EU- if arti 16 is triggered. I know very few people who voted for a Brexit without Single market, without Customs Union, and without a Deal at all = total isolation and totaly outside control of all imports and exports + massive tarifs.

Actually don’t think Germany will let that happen. Macron has already been slapped down by rest of EU as regarding his bully boy tactics over loss of small amount of fishing permits.

Britain and the US did the right thing to regenerate Germany and Japan, not wanting to repeat the mistakes after WW1.

Katie59

“Those who are suspicious of coalitions should look at post-war Germany, which has had a succession of coalitions.”

Germany and Japan both had their industrial capacity totally destroyed during the war, everything had to be built afresh, whereas we struggling with old factories and machines for decades. The polarization of the workforce, managers predominately Tory, workers mostly unionized Labour has sustained the 2 party system, US the same.
Germany is a good example of a multi party system there are plenty of bad ones, Israel, where extreme religious parties are a big obstacle to peace, or Italy and Australia where PM is changed most years.

But Germany could easily have gone under and never recovered from WW2.

The UK helped Germany write its new constitution. The country actually learnt from past mistakes. Why can't the UK?

"Brexit is dead, problem is the government have no idea what to do with the corpse."

I vote for this as quote of the day.

Small Scottish voice from the back.... "Don't forget us...." ?

“Those who are suspicious of coalitions should look at post-war Germany, which has had a succession of coalitions.”

Germany and Japan both had their industrial capacity totally destroyed during the war, everything had to be built afresh, whereas we struggling with old factories and machines for decades. The polarization of the workforce, managers predominately Tory, workers mostly unionized Labour has sustained the 2 party system, US the same.
Germany is a good example of a multi party system there are plenty of bad ones, Israel, where extreme religious parties are a big obstacle to peace, or Italy and Australia where PM is changed most years.

“Nobody votes for a party based on one policy only, but by after considering the full range of their policies”

I profoundly disagree with that.

It was obvious the large numbers voted just to “get Brexit done” the only reason the Tories have an 80 seat majority.

Brexit is dead, problem is the government have no idea what to do with the corpse.

I may be misreading posts but I haven’t seen paeons of praise for the Labour Party. Most comments are critical of the current Conservative government and no surprise, so am I.
The legacy of Corbyn lingers, particularly as his fan club do all they can to undermine Starmer.
Coalitions have been effective in Germany. 80 majorities less so here in the UK.
I’m for electoral reform. I hope we have tactical arrangements at the next election to ensure we don’t have another period of Tory misgovernment

Urmstongran Can see nothing remarkable about your post (in the nicests sense). Possibly it is considered so because it isn't another paeon of praise of the Labour party.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deals-australia-new-zealand-b1952442.html

Brexit losses 178 TIMES MORE than gains. Brexit may be over but we are all losers. So much for global Britain .

Those who are suspicious of coalitions should look at post-war Germany, which has had a succession of coalitions.

Labour and the other parties have moved on. Making the country work for all will be difficult but not as difficult for many of us as it will be if this Tory government gets back in.

Labour voters and those from the other progressive parties are, by nature, pro-Europe. This is as true as the fact that Conservatives are, by their nature, anti-NHS; seeing everything through the prism of of their bedrock privatisation.

A government that starts as your friend, although tough in negotiation and competition, will be a blessed relief to the EU. I can imagine many will see that we are far more likely to make progress that suits our country with this relationship than the bullies in the Tory party have managed so far.

It is those who have no strong view who will make the difference. After our recent experience, many will be open to the argument that a progressive government would do less damage and a lot more good for this country than another Tory one.

We do not know where this country will stand by the next election. However, we can imagine that decent and positive negotiations between our government and the EU will lead, as I said, to more British jobs, more British trade and the beginning of the country being taken seriously on the world stage once again.

Now that is worth discussing.

Urmstongran

Finally after 5y the juggernaut is slowly turning towards the fact that we have indeed left the EU.

PR though varian?
?
Isn't that the one where someone can be elected that nobody really wants? And gives rise to sclerotic unworkable coalitions of the barely willing?

Fair point, Urmstongran

After all if we had ha, for example, PR in 2015 that could have resulted in 80 MPs for UKIP.

UKIP would have a lot more seats in the House of Commons if the UK had an electoral system that links votes to seats more closely. It realised just one MP from the party’s 3.9 million votes at the 2015 election.

If the system were perfectly proportional, that 12.4% of the vote would give UKIP 12.4% of MPs—around 80 out of 650 in total.

fullfact.org/news/how-many-seats-could-ukip-have-under-different-voting-system
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281

I fail to see why my post could be construed as ‘stirring’?
I wonder what others think.
Anyone care to comment?

I stand by what I said. It is far too easy to say that the Conservatives won because they supported Brexit.

To say this is to insult voters for whom this was, undoubted, an important issue and also to avoid the issue that many traditional Labour voters were alienated by Labour under Jeremy Corbyn.

This next election is not for Labour to win, but the Conservatives to lose.

PippaZ is just giving her opinion on your post. Fair enough, no.

The irony is, that Brexit Deal is probably about to fall flat on its face and be cancelled by the EU- if arti 16 is triggered. I know very few people who voted for a Brexit without Single market, without Customs Union, and without a Deal at all = total isolation and totaly outside control of all imports and exports + massive tarifs.

Why is it whenever I post what I’m thinking the posse on here turn against me? Are you lying in wait?

Goodness me. Forgive me for having an opinion.

I think that post is best (politely) ignored Urmstongran. Standard stirring.

Finally after 5y the juggernaut is slowly turning towards the fact that we have indeed left the EU.

PR though varian?
?
Isn't that the one where someone can be elected that nobody really wants? And gives rise to sclerotic unworkable coalitions of the barely willing?

I believe it is too soon to commit to electoral reform Varian. We need a progressive government. We need it for our country, for our democracy and our future relationship with our nearest neighbours.

That is not to say we don't need electoral reform. However, politics is the art of the possible. It's a case of first getting into government. I think that would be for a second parliament, not the next one.

Those people who care little about politics will not be thinking of electoral reform. They will just be wanting things to get better. The Progressives will need to show those who only want to get on from day to day that it is a closer alliance with Europe that will mean is more British jobs, more British trade and the beginning of the country being taken seriously on the world stage once again. Some will realise the Tory idea of divergence at any cost isn't working but they won't see any solution. The Progressives must offer one they can believe in - not a turning upside-down of their world yet again.