What is the answer here?

This may explain the increase in numbers.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/12/brexit-easier-small-boat-crossings-to-reach-uk-refugees-say

This is one of the problems Daisend1 which no one seems able to answer.
It’s often said we have a housing crisis but it’s more of a population crisis.

Meanwhile there is the problem on the Polish border with many thousands of migrants trying to get a foothold in Europe.

Are the desperate people economic migrants who just want a better life for them and their families or people who are persecuted in their homelands?
If they are economic then why do they insist on the UK? Some have come a long way, why don’t they head for the Arabic countries, surely more wealthy than Europe?
I’m not sure there is any answer when people are so desperate to change their lives.

Jackiest - thank you for that useful link.

There seems to be an assumption on this thread that the UK is taking proportionately more refugees and asylum seekers than other countries, whereas actually far more are taken in by other African and Asian countries. Germany also takes more than the UK, and France and Spain are close behind.

This country needs immigrants to compensate for the EU citizens who have left the UK because of Brexit and the thousands of highly skilled Brits who have moved to the EU in the last five years.

Fortunately many immigrants have useful skills and the system should allow them to work and settle as soon as possible.

I wholeheartedly agree with what Varian said.

When immigrants can settle and start work they begin contributing to society, pay tax and provide the services that we are all crying out for - builders, electricians, plumbers, carers, NHS staff, teachers, lorry drivers. Evidence has proven that immigrants are nett contributors to our economy.

Who takes most refugees as a percentage of population?
1.Lebanon – 19.5%
2. Jordan – 10.5%
3. Nauru – 5.9%
4. Turkey – 5.0%
5. Liberia – 4.1%
6. Uganda – 3.7%
7. Malta – 2.7%
8. Sudan – 2.6%
9. Sweden – 2.6%
10. South Sudan – 2.5%

Who takes the most refugees?
Germany – 1,265,000 refugees (1.5% of the total population)
Ethiopia – 943,000 (0.8%)
United States – 773,000 (0.23%
Bangladesh – 675,000 (0.4%)
Kenya – 394,000 (0.7%)
Russia – 453,000 (0.3%)
Cameroon – 416,000 (1.5%)

I don’t think there is an answer Sarnia and it seems sometimes that half the world is on the move.
We just have to accept they will arrive, sort out genuine cases and deport others.

Calistemon
That’s exactly what I was saying, i thought it was clear. ?

Jackiest

This may explain the increase in numbers.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/12/brexit-easier-small-boat-crossings-to-reach-uk-refugees-say

There are a few explanations, to my mind, as to why these people leave the safe country of say France, they have been refused asylum in said country of departure, so UK, may be their last hope. Family already here, in which case once processed should be sent to said family, English is spoken, not always though. We have no ID system, so easier for them to work under the radar. Saying that, people should be treated humanely, but how do you accommodate 20,000 people who arrive in a few months. Should we plan our infrastructure to accommodate newcomers, rather than our own poorly housed, how much land would you like us to build over, who is goingo to pay for it??

Your mentioning building and poor housing Lincslass has made me think about the shortage of housing for immigrants and for the population in general. We all know housing is short and one of the reasons for this is second home ownership.

The last English Housing Survey estimated that 772,000 households had a second home in 2018/19. Of those, 495,000 were in the UK, an increase of 77% in the past 10 years. That's over 380,000 UK homes taken out of the market between 2008 and 2018.

Now obviously people have an absolute right to have a second home if they wish, but if those homes could be owned or even rented long term by another family perhaps an immigrant family then at least the homes wouldn't be standing empty hollowing out rural and coastal communities.

My remote coastal town has many second homes. Young people can't afford to buy or rent here and so move away. The population ages, schools close, bus services are scrapped and there are no young people to provide essential services e.g. builders, plumbers, chefs, carers. Young immigrant families would fill an ever increasing gap here and their children would breathe life into the place.

www.insidehousing.co.uk/comment/comment/we-need-to-address-the-problem-of-second-homes-72386

The problem is we really don’t know who is coming into the country. Many of the migrants destroy any documents that can identify them so returning anyone to their own country is impossible. Once they are here they are here. This is whether they are genuine migrants or not. As we have seen earlier this week even migrants who have been tried by the Courts and convicted of very serious crimes cannot be deported as a result of human rights lawyers using every loop hole possible to ensure they stay here. Very lucrative for these lawyers who are paid by the tax payer.

Scones

Your mentioning building and poor housing Lincslass has made me think about the shortage of housing for immigrants and for the population in general. We all know housing is short and one of the reasons for this is second home ownership.

The last English Housing Survey estimated that 772,000 households had a second home in 2018/19. Of those, 495,000 were in the UK, an increase of 77% in the past 10 years. That's over 380,000 UK homes taken out of the market between 2008 and 2018.

Now obviously people have an absolute right to have a second home if they wish, but if those homes could be owned or even rented long term by another family perhaps an immigrant family then at least the homes wouldn't be standing empty hollowing out rural and coastal communities.

My remote coastal town has many second homes. Young people can't afford to buy or rent here and so move away. The population ages, schools close, bus services are scrapped and there are no young people to provide essential services e.g. builders, plumbers, chefs, carers. Young immigrant families would fill an ever increasing gap here and their children would breathe life into the place.

www.insidehousing.co.uk/comment/comment/we-need-to-address-the-problem-of-second-homes-72386

I too live in a coastal town, we have had a small immigrant population for many many years, lucky because we all seem to get along together, and we’ve had some new arrivals, seem to be more transient though. Second homes, well if you can’t live in a house and it stands empty, that is something that needs looking at. A landlord I know does rent his house out to immigrant families, usually those on an accreditation scheme we have for medical personnel. Most of our jobs are filled by locals and immigrants so a good mix as it should be, and we have a thriving younger generation working in the area. Some immigrants may be able to fill posts, as I’ve said previously. Some will take a lot of integration and training before they can do so.

Sarnia

Redhead56

I watched a documentary about the lifeboats last week. The staff were getting grief from the public because they rescued migrants from a dinghy.
It was upsetting for the lifeboat staff they just want to save lives. These wonderful volunteers do a brave and daring job unpaid. With no support from the government who are burying their heads in the sand. If the life boat staff are getting abuse for saving migrants it's not surprising they are taking time off. It was sad to see the immigrants there were little children amongst them. It was an upsetting programme to watch and its a situation that is not going away.

I watched this and really felt for the lifeboat crew pulled in two directions. It's a situation that has been going on for too long with no effective procedure and as you say is not going away.

I too watched it, and felt ashamed that these brave people of the Lifeboat crews had been abused. Whatever you feel about the situation, no one wants to see anyone drowning, do they.

As this is a problem which seems to be ongoing and never ending, will people still be saying the same thing when the numbers are in the millions instead of the thousands? There is not enough of anything for these numbers of people. They can't even be processed on arrival any more, the whole system has broken down. We do not have enough homes, our NHS is literally on its knees, the schools are unable to cope, how can we keep accepting more people without completely breaking our infrastructure? And just remember, the UK is a very small country compared to others. We cannot keep building on what we have left of agricultural land. We have a whopping 67.2 million people here while New Zealand at roughly the same size has only 5 million, about half the population of London. Those figures alone should be ringing alarm bells.

Most people do not want to leave the place they were born and grew up. People will only do it if they are forced to because of danger to their lives or starvation. Maybe we should put our efforts into making where they live better so they don't want to come here rather making our borders stronger so they just try harder. There needs to be some sort of carrot and stick approach to persuade governments to behave in a reasonable civilized way to their people.

Read about Tom Tugenhat today, and his remarks, perhaps this would be a better solution. We blame the French, they blame us for having lax work and ID regulations. Working together would seem a better option.

Sorry here is the link.
uk.news.yahoo.com/build-partnerships-migration-crisis-rather-100544273.html

I don’t think some people realise how many people are on the move right now because of climate change.
Have you seen Bangladesh? The Western Sahara?
Have you seen what the Chinese factory trawlers have done to the fishing villages down the western coast of Africa: they are decimated.
I’m not saying, come one, come all because immigration has to be managed so we can plan our resources.

Can we just stop trying to say that Australia's immigration policy is in any way something we should be trying to copy?

Why, Alegrias?

All you need to do is say you disagree, not try to stop other Gransnetters posting their opinions and queries.

No one person owns the threads.

Read the thread. Its all explained in simple words.

Its a free country, anyone can post what they like (is that an echo...?) but if anyone misrepresents the success or even the humanity of the Australian model, I'll be shouting. Loud.

Anyway it was a question. People can keep showing how little understanding they have of international politics all they like.

As a matter of interest, why do people think we should be entitled to own second homes while we have a major housing shortage? (Ducks!)

I didn't say I agreed with the policy and you can shout all you like that you disagree, Alegrias, but saying:

Can we just stop trying to say that Australia's immigration policy is in any way something we should be trying to copy?

is trying to control what other posters say and police the threads.

Aye, whatever.

A bit like, oh I don't know... questioning why posters are posting on particular threads that you don't think they are interested in?