The Greek Prime Minister

There was nothing altruistic about Elgin's aquisition of the marbles. It was simply buying something to decorate his house. He sold them to the British Museum because divorce left him skint. One of his ships sunk
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9300129/Elgin-Marbles-ship-Flintlock-pistol-shoe-parts-shipwreck.html
Of course they should go back to Greece. Athens now has a state of the art museum and thousands of visitors every year.

homefarm

As I understand it, Lord Elgin purchased the marbles. They were not looted. If he hadn't recued them, they would not be here today to argue over.

There is some doubt over the legitimacy of this. Apparently the original documentation of the purchase is missing. A parliamentary enquiry in 1816 (yes, I have the right year ) supposed to confirm the validity of his claim to have purchased them only saw an Italian translation from the Ottoman language of the original document.

David Allen Green has been blogging about this:

davidallengreen.com/2021/11/what-if-the-elgin-marbles-were-not-legally-acquired-by-the-british-museum-in-the-first-place/

I do think that had Elgin not removed the sculptures from the Parthenon they may well have been in a far, far worse condition now than they are.

As I understand it, Lord Elgin purchased the marbles. They were not looted. If he hadn't recued them, they would not be here today to argue over.

He made a very good case for there return and yes he looks like a statesman rather than a talking sack.
Do not stop posting a thread otherwise the same people would monopolise the site.

Didn't hear him but sounds like a great improvement on what we have. Keep posting!

To be honest I am impressed by many Prime Ministers apart from our own. That’s all I can add really apart from we should return things which don’t belong to us and pay debts to allow a mother/wife to return to her family.

Greece isn't an unstable country but there have been examples of destruction and looting of artefacts in several countries which have been destabilised over the last 50 or so years. I would think that many more people have seen the Elgin Marbles in the British Museum over the years that would have seen them in Greece. However, it does seem that since the Greeks now have a state of the art museum at the Parthenon they should go back.

Zoejory Please don't be detered from starting threads! If we all listened to the naysayers, the site would be run by about 10 members.

No one, other than the 10 members, wants that!

They are our Marbles - and they wouldn’t exist if we hadn’t saved them.

Cambia

I live in Greece part of the year and they should send the marbles back pronto!! They have some amazing museums here so the old excuse that the uk was looking after them to keep them safe, no longer has legs!!
Mitsotakis is very nice, perhaps we could do a swap?

Quite. I was always told that the Greeks were smashing them and using to make talc! I suspect that was an excuse as talc is famously made from particular type of marble in ITALY either way I also agree that any artifacts 'acquired' by past Brits should be repatriated where safe to do so. I also have always thought that the practice of having'mummies' on display in museums was horrendous, even as a little girl I knew these were people! How yuk! Crass and thoroughly of the Victorian era.

I live in Greece part of the year and they should send the marbles back pronto!! They have some amazing museums here so the old excuse that the uk was looking after them to keep them safe, no longer has legs!!
Mitsotakis is very nice, perhaps we could do a swap?

Give them the Elgin marbles. Mrs Clooney was fighting to get them back. Let’s get up a petition

I didn’t see him, but am interested in the discussion.

I thought he came across very well.
Re: the marbles, IMO they should be returned. If we feel we need to see them then copies can be made.
They are priceless therefore have no actual value. We are hardly going to sell them are we?

Calendargirl

I take it he doesn’t look untidy, ruffle his hair, wear suits too small for him, have his shirt hanging out….?

I must look him up, I haven’t seen him.

Indeed Calendargirl. I think that is where the flippant deleted comments came from, especially after the sentence, What a difference to our PM and others in general. I also took the discussion to be about appearance, charisma, charm etc. Apologies.

I take it he doesn’t look untidy, ruffle his hair, wear suits too small for him, have his shirt hanging out….?

I must look him up, I haven’t seen him.

Personally I think they should be returned and I agree he made an eloquent and reasonable case.
I saw recently ,I think it was on France 24, that France was returning a number of antiquities to Benin.
Unlike a lot of other African countries they don’t have a lot of natural resources and are hoping to build a museum to showcase their cultural history through their antiquities. They see tourism as the way forward. I think it’s a wonderful idea.
I also think African countries should nationalise their mineral resources and throw the companies who’ve exploited them for diamonds, emeralds and minerals out of there.

I believe the Elgin Marbles and the Benin Bronzes should be returned to their birth cultures, however I do accept that the marbles were purchased.

It would be worthwhile to freely lend these artefacts to the cultures concerned if no accommodation can be reached.

I didn’t see the interview myself ( not a morning person ) but DH (who is) saw it and was very impressed with the Greek PM.

toscalily

*Lucca, Heavens a comment deleted already ?* someone at GNHQ is on the ball this morning

You wouldn’t think it was a topic that invited controversial posts

toscalily

*Lucca, Heavens a comment deleted already ?* someone at GNHQ is on the ball this morning

It was a very silly comment but hardly woth reporting...
Are the mods being proactive this morning, I wonder.

Anyway, the Elgin Marbles. Very controversial, being part, I think, of the growing calls for the return of artefacts 'looted in the days of Empire and fears that our museums will be emptied if we do go down that route.

It's always been claimed that Elgin purchased them legally from the Turks who were in control of Greece at the time. And that, the Parthenon having been semi destroyed by them (IIRR it was being used to store explosives) it helped to save them from further destruction.

If I were Greek I'd want them back, but it's a tricky situation.

Zoejory

Maybe I should just not bother starting conversations! I've only done a couple and one sank like a stone.

Anyhow, I heard this man on TV and thought he spoke a lot of sense and was clear and interesting. Made quite a change from our 'esteemed' leader.

As for the Elgin marbles, I recall many years ago William G. Stewart was passionate about returning them to their rightful home.

Greek PM obviously would like them returned and he made a point that maybe we could come to an agreement where we could lend other artefacts to our respective museums which sounded reasonable.

So I suppose as Lucca said, both can be discussed .. or not!

I missed the interview but heard the GMB presenters talking about him and the number of favourable comments that they'd received. I shall look later to see if the interview has found its way on to You tube.

I remember Melina Mercouri campaigning for the return of the marbles. Fantastic woman great actress and amazing politician en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melina_Mercouri
I think the Greeks tend to get much more charismatic politicians than we do. I liked Yanis Varoufakis the left wing academic who negogiated with the EU during the economic crisis. But then I would he's solidly left wing!

Lucca, Heavens a comment deleted already ? someone at GNHQ is on the ball this morning

Maybe I should just not bother starting conversations! I've only done a couple and one sank like a stone.

Anyhow, I heard this man on TV and thought he spoke a lot of sense and was clear and interesting. Made quite a change from our 'esteemed' leader.

As for the Elgin marbles, I recall many years ago William G. Stewart was passionate about returning them to their rightful home.

Greek PM obviously would like them returned and he made a point that maybe we could come to an agreement where we could lend other artefacts to our respective museums which sounded reasonable.

So I suppose as Lucca said, both can be discussed .. or not!