NHS in crises

Whitewavemark2

Sorry to reintegrate the BMA link, but it is worth repeating and many don’t bother to read links etc.

I think that the concerns of the BMA are exactly what we would be concerned over.

There will be no transparency in the award of contracts.
Why on earth not? Look where this last couple of years has got us.

As patients we will no longer have the right to challenge in court any removal of services.

This means that the concept of cradle to grave will be gone. Opens the way for at least private insurance needed to “top up”

Private health providers etc will be able to sit in decision making boards. This is definitely a conflict of interest and not in the patients interest.

The powers of the Secretary of Health is to be greatly extended, which means that the power to abolish/extend/reconfigure Trusts and the ability to gradually de-nationalise, without parliamentary/democratic oversight

See the pattern?

Government will have complete control over our health data. This has never been the case and leaves government with the ability to commercialise the information.

It looks like exactly as feared. The NHS will be reduced to a mere safety net for the poor and destitute. We are moving towards an American model.

We need another -any - government before this gets too far down the road.

That is what the video I posted was saying. Good try, Wwmk2, but don't you realise that the BMA is 'political' (being the doctor's trade union) so it clearly can't be trusted to be making an objective assessment of the provisions of the Bill.

As we all know, the NHS is utterly safe in the hands of the tories, they're continually saying this, aren't they? . After all, the tory's leader is the very model of selflessness, honour and truthfulness. I think we can trust his government not to do the dirty on us, can't we?

I think it all goes back to the OP. It is a deliberate policy which began with Cameron.

Other European countries seem to do a lot better. Why we can't look at how other counties do it I don't know? Because the powers that be couldn't give a the NHS (and other. public services) are in a "world class" mess!

Sorry to reintegrate the BMA link, but it is worth repeating and many don’t bother to read links etc.

I think that the concerns of the BMA are exactly what we would be concerned over.

There will be no transparency in the award of contracts.
Why on earth not? Look where this last couple of years has got us.

As patients we will no longer have the right to challenge in court any removal of services.

This means that the concept of cradle to grave will be gone. Opens the way for at least private insurance needed to “top up”

Private health providers etc will be able to sit in decision making boards. This is definitely a conflict of interest and not in the patients interest.

The powers of the Secretary of Health is to be greatly extended, which means that the power to abolish/extend/reconfigure Trusts and the ability to gradually de-nationalise, without parliamentary/democratic oversight

See the pattern?

Government will have complete control over our health data. This has never been the case and leaves government with the ability to commercialise the information.

It looks like exactly as feared. The NHS will be reduced to a mere safety net for the poor and destitute. We are moving towards an American model.

We need another -any - government before this gets too far down the road.

This is the BMAs interpretation

As I said MaizieD I’m in Wales, and the NHS here is increasingly different to the NHS in England, that’s why I didn’t know much about the Bill and sought to find out.
I’m not a Tory supporter, and I’m certainly not gullible. I just like to understand the potential implications of proposals from less political sources and then make my own mind up.

The NHS is almost entirely devolved.

Too late for me to read, maybe some night owls will find the will do do so.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-and-care-bill-factsheets
Will read myself when time permits. Goodnight.

Why would you think that there should be political objections to the bill, Casdon?

Don't tell me that you believe that the tories, whose objective has always been to minimise the State (i.e funding) and to open up the NHS to profitmaking organisations are disinterestedly working to improve the NHS to the benefit of all our citizens?

Had you not noticed that certain procedures are no longer offered on the NHS? Or that US companies are buying up GP surgeries en masse? Or that much NHS work is already farmed out to private providers who have to make a profit from the work they undertake (which makes one wonder why the NHS can't actually do it more cheaply as they don't have to make a profit?).
Is there no concern that there is great potential for our data to be sold to companies, with the prospect of it being used to limit access to health provision if a health insurance model is introduced (like the US system which so many of our current cabinet members approve of and which we know is dire).

Are we just sitting back thinking that the NHS will never change and that a benevolent government is in charge of it?

I saw that MaizieD, but didn’t find it that helpful because it’s written from a political perspective. I couldn’t see the evidence that what was claimed is the reality of what is proposed in the Bill, and when I saw the Kings Fund article I questioned whether they were referring to the right Bill because it seems so different in interpretation. I don’t think the Kings Fubd has a political bias, and I’d be surprised if they have missed such a major implication. I’ll be interested to see what Whitewavemark2 interprets - as I’m in Wales and this Bill definitely appears to relate to England only I’m not directly affected, but will be interested to see what those who are make of it.

Casdon

Is it this Bill Whitewavemark2? This is aping the system we already have in Wales, and is for England only - but it doesn’t seem to say anything about patient eligibility for care changing, so I may have the wrong Bill?

www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/health-and-care-bill-key-questions

Where in Wales was the empty clinics issue Calistemon, can you link it or give a bit more info?

Can I refer you back to my post at 16.12. Follow the link to the video explaining what the Bill is proposing.

I hope it has been sorted out now, Casdon

Oh thanks I will read that. Just watching film taken in the Victorian period. Will finish that first, as that read needs concentration?

Not empty, just fewer than invited for appointments.

I pmd you, Casdon

Is it this Bill Whitewavemark2? This is aping the system we already have in Wales, and is for England only - but it doesn’t seem to say anything about patient eligibility for care changing, so I may have the wrong Bill?

www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/health-and-care-bill-key-questions

Where in Wales was the empty clinics issue Calistemon, can you link it or give a bit more info?

It must be just for England I guess, but I will put my hand up and say that I haven’t read much about it, but it does sound worrying. Hoping someone who knows about its contents will give us an idea what is being decided.

Yes, Casdon in Wales.

I haven’t seen it reported in the news about clinics being empty Calistemon, where was it in Wales? I have seen several other reports of clinic letter mix ups when I googled it, but they were in the North East of England and Scotland, for Covid vaccinations.
There are many ways in which the effectiveness of health services can be measured, and it suits the narrative of the UK Government to denigrate the systems in the other nations. My impression is there is good and bad in all four systems. One real strength in Wales is community integrated services being on the same footprint as the Local Authorities and delivering jointly to enable people to stay in their own homes longer which is not as good in England. Our waiting lists are very poor though, partly due to the number of vacancies at consultant level - but it’s not inherently less efficient in my opinion.
Whitewavemark2 is the bill you refer to UK wide, or for England, given that health is devolved?

Is this correct?

“WHY is no one on spoken media telling people that if the Gov health bill goes through next week People lose their right to get treatment in a hospital.This means that faced with any illness you are on your own.Tories do not want a NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE ANY MORE”

When I say one instance I mean it has only just come to light and is one instance of inefficiency, not one case.

Clinics nearly empty and Consultants wondering why patients were not turning up for appointments because the letters/texts/emails were sent out after the appointment date was one instance recently.
Not just a few - a lot!

Prescribing expensive drugs in quite large quantities which were not suitable.

What kind of inefficiencies?

Good post, Dickens.

Healthcare is devolved and Wales is not doing as well as the other nations either despite an injection of cash. However, we have seen money and resources wasted recently due to inefficiencies in the system.

vegansrock

The ambulance service is in crisis too with stories of lengthy waits for ambulances, people dying in ambulances as they are stacked up at A and E and can’t get to the next call. Scary. The healthcare system in this country is definitely collapsing .

It's a knock-on effect because the ambulance crew can't leave their patient even in A&E or a MAU/SAU until they have been assessed by a hospital medical professional.

It happened to me a few years ago; I told the paramedics they could go as I was inside the hospital, albeit in a corridor but they said they couldn't leave me until a doctor had seen me. That wasn't too long, a doctor briefly looked at me, diagnosed a broken bone and they went. I then waited several more hours!

A friend waited outside A&E in the ambulance for 12 hours last week.