NHS in crises

Nothing in the NHS will change until people realise that it is not "the envy of the world," because only then will Governments stand any chance of introducing real reform without it being politically suicidal to do so.

You're so right Urmstongran Needs to be discussed cross party without an eye on the next election.

Can we not just go back to the level of spending that worked for about half a century from 1949 please?

Scones unfortunately all the wonderful medical advances in scanning technology, neurosurgery, cancer treatment, drugs etc. that have been made in recent years are very costly.

If I had been alive in 1949 and had the same conditions that the NHS has treated me for in the 21st century I would not have survived, there would have been no treatment available.

I understand that Blossoming, but since 2010 the average annual rise in government spending above inflation has been less than the previous 60 years. So costs have risen and spending hasn't kept pace.

I'm so glad you received the treatment you needed and hope your health is good now. I also hope that the NHS will have the funding it needs to keep providing that treatment for you and other patients in the future.

Scones yes I understood that, but even if spending had kept pace I think there would still be a huge gap between what people need or want, and what the NHS is able to fund. I’m probably not explaining myself very well.

Yes, costs have risen, spending hasn't kept pace, new treatments have become available/possible - and, importantly, demand has escalated as the population, in general, lives longer - for far more years, in poor health.

www.statista.com/statistics/1040159/life-expectancy-united-kingdom-all-time/

One other thing. The demand for medicines Im on has increased due to people ill with Covid/ Long Covid needing the same items, which leads to the greedy pharmaceutical companies increasing the prices. How they sleep at night I don't know. My inhaler is being changed to a cheaper one. The demand for them has increased so the price for my inhaler has shot through the roof. Im dreading other changes of medication. I had a bad reaction to another inhaler they tried me on. It's a worry. I dread the words we are changing your medication, invariably it leads to me reacting to it. If it's not that they then start mucking about with brands. Re medication price increases, a few years ago there was a scandal with one of the thyroid medications. It really is a disgrace and I don't know why this govt or the NHS tolerate this. Medication that costs the earth here, can be bought more cheaply in other countries.

The ambulance service is in crisis too with stories of lengthy waits for ambulances, people dying in ambulances as they are stacked up at A and E and can’t get to the next call. Scary. The healthcare system in this country is definitely collapsing .

The ambulance service crisis is part of a whole system crisis.

WW2, I saw this graph yesterday too. I tried to copy it. Produced by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, it’s a damming indictment of government since 2010. That plus Brexit and the pandemic has resulted in the shambles we see today.

The government is totally responsible responsible for the lack of health services for the vast majority of the population.

Pepper59, my sister got a private prescription (online, I believe) for her usual inhaler - as she just didn't want to risk the GP surgery waiting area and they wouldn't prescribe without a visit.

Urmstongran

Nothing in the NHS will change until people realise that it is not "the envy of the world," because only then will Governments stand any chance of introducing real reform without it being politically suicidal to do so.

Urmstongran

You are so right.

But that view will not change until government - any government - has an honest 'debate' with the nation about it. As others have pointed out, there are now treatments and procedures (and new drugs), which weren't available even a decade ago - and a huge demand for them. This all costs. As does the burden of an ageing population.

When the NHS was founded nearly 70 years ago, one-in-two people died before they reached 65. Now this has dropped to about one-in-eight. By the time they reach 65 men can now expect to live on average for another 18 years and women for 20 years. (National Clinical Director for Older People and Integrated Care - NHS)

An 'honest debate' with the nation would require a brave government to tell us that we cannot have a first-class health service 'on the cheap'. How we fund the NHS is the debate. Unfortunately, the NHS has been and is now, a political football. Successive governments dare not make themselves unpopular by talking about increased taxation or the modus operandi adopted by other European nations where patients - or 'service users' as we are sometimes called - pay for a visit to their GP, or consultant.

When I lived in Norway and joined their health service, all doctor and consultant appointments attracted an extra charge on top of the national health contributions (hospital admissions are free at the point of need). But here's the thing... Norway is a high-wage economy, people can afford these extra costs. It is also a high-tax economy because the nation accepts that it has to pay for decent, efficient health and social-care services.

Everyone seems to think that the choice is between a 'free' NHS or the American model of private insurance. Personally, I would favour the European model - others will disagree. That's why we need a national 'debate'.

As a side note - you can, in Norway, opt for a private consult or treatment and pay upfront. But that, too, is affordable. I opted for a procedure privately which cost just over £50 - the equivalent procedure here in the UK would cost £hundreds.

Hetty, Im really surprised at that re your sister. Dickens, what a very good post.

I’ve been banging on about that for years dickens

Just saw this

“As people die waiting for ambulances that never arrive

Or perish in the back of them outside overwhelmed hospitals

The Tories are passing a bill to remove the statutory duty of the NHS to provide care

So when it’s gone

We can’t sue

…and when it’s gone

It’s gone”

I am fearful that this will eventually be the case that people will have to pay a lot more for healthcare in one way or another. This will again impact more on the poor.

Do watch the video on this thread:

twitter.com/YourNHS2021/status/1461752212883968005

www.yournhsneedsyou.com/

vegansrock

The ambulance service is in crisis too with stories of lengthy waits for ambulances, people dying in ambulances as they are stacked up at A and E and can’t get to the next call. Scary. The healthcare system in this country is definitely collapsing .

It's a knock-on effect because the ambulance crew can't leave their patient even in A&E or a MAU/SAU until they have been assessed by a hospital medical professional.

It happened to me a few years ago; I told the paramedics they could go as I was inside the hospital, albeit in a corridor but they said they couldn't leave me until a doctor had seen me. That wasn't too long, a doctor briefly looked at me, diagnosed a broken bone and they went. I then waited several more hours!

A friend waited outside A&E in the ambulance for 12 hours last week.

Good post, Dickens.

Healthcare is devolved and Wales is not doing as well as the other nations either despite an injection of cash. However, we have seen money and resources wasted recently due to inefficiencies in the system.

What kind of inefficiencies?

Clinics nearly empty and Consultants wondering why patients were not turning up for appointments because the letters/texts/emails were sent out after the appointment date was one instance recently.
Not just a few - a lot!

Prescribing expensive drugs in quite large quantities which were not suitable.

When I say one instance I mean it has only just come to light and is one instance of inefficiency, not one case.

Is this correct?

“WHY is no one on spoken media telling people that if the Gov health bill goes through next week People lose their right to get treatment in a hospital.This means that faced with any illness you are on your own.Tories do not want a NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE ANY MORE”