Is English cricket, not just Yorkshire cricket, institutionally racist?

vegansrock

There a difference between an anti semitic text when someone was a teenager ( not saying it is Ok) and systematic face to face racism in a dressing room and club.Both are unacceptable and need to be called out, but they don’t cancel each other out. Of course someone who is a victim of racism can also be guilty of racism, just as someone who is bullied can get up and punch the bully. It doesn’t mean we ignore it or pretend it didn’t happen.

Yes, Thank you. Any of us who can stand up and say we didn't do or say stupid things as teenagers, must be few and far between. NO comparison whatsoever.

And yes, your post did display blatant racism Marmite- the fact you have to insist it doesn't, makes that clear.

vegansrock

There a difference between an anti semitic text when someone was a teenager ( not saying it is Ok) and systematic face to face racism in a dressing room and club.Both are unacceptable and need to be called out, but they don’t cancel each other out. Of course someone who is a victim of racism can also be guilty of racism, just as someone who is bullied can get up and punch the bully. It doesn’t mean we ignore it or pretend it didn’t happen.

Exactly. We all have entrenched attitudes about race & ethnicity, if we grew up white. Even if we have multi-ethnic families. Having and dealthing with the attitudes is one thing. Denying they're there, while also trying to shut down the experiences of a person of colour is quite another.

Aveline
You were offended by the term black jock
Far more back people will be offended by your coloured Scottish character description.

I've never felt the need to tell anyone I'm not racist.

They can usually tell because I don't behave in a way that would make them think I am.

And BTW P* Power is a cricket team in Melbourne. "Power" is a named used by sports teams. Was Rafiq wearing their shirt? Or was it just someone who you thought looked like him

There a difference between an anti semitic text when someone was a teenager ( not saying it is Ok) and systematic face to face racism in a dressing room and club.Both are unacceptable and need to be called out, but they don’t cancel each other out. Of course someone who is a victim of racism can also be guilty of racism, just as someone who is bullied can get up and punch the bully. It doesn’t mean we ignore it or pretend it didn’t happen.

I am sick to death about this whistle blower …he was compensated years ago for it and is still going on about it …there are photos of him in a cricket too with “P..I POWER “ on the front ,he had apologised for his slur on Jews (and that’s alright ..NOT …he is raking up things that happened years ago (I am not saying what was said was correct) people are losing jobs and he is still smug about it …his past will come back and bite him and I hope he realises his errors and people will see him for what he is …And before people think I am racist ..I am not …but it becoming ridiculous now

I think some of the worst racism was against the Irish- still is in some quarters. I have never come across racism towards Scottish people, ever and I am largely Scottish myself.

Aveline

Alegrias do you remember the coloured Scottish character in 'Porridge'? He was called Black Jock! Somehow I doubt that would be allowed these days. I found it pretty shocking back then.

Oh, I'd forgotten about that! We've moved on, haven't we?

winterwhite

It seems to me that it's endemic in any sport involving all-male teams, which is most physical team sports. Sexism is rife in the same way. Sport engenders competition which encourages male cliquiness, ganging up and locker room talk.

This makes it very difficult to correct.

So far as I know this doesn't happen in women's team sports.

I think this is true, an interesting point.

Alegrias do you remember the coloured Scottish character in 'Porridge'? He was called Black Jock! Somehow I doubt that would be allowed these days. I found it pretty shocking back then.

vegansrock It is well attested that certain ethnic groups have a value system based on the colour of the the person's skin, where someone fair-skinned, especially a woman, is highly valued and marriage with someone darker than you is severely frowned on. Others use caste as a value system and that too seems to effectively based on colour

In European countries, there is undoubtedly discrimination based on race and colour. Have you noticed that most people of Asian and Afro-Caribbean origin in the media and the arts are pleasantly light brown, often with a European cast of features, although this is changing. Very few who look like Paul Robeson or Louis Armstrong. Even we discriminate on a graduated colour basis.

Hmm...been thinking about this. My cousin's husband is called Jock. My grannie's dog was called Jock. As I've already said today, we're a' Jock Tamson's bairns.

So its up there with Paddy, Taffy and Fritz. Says more about the person using it and how they use it, than anything else.

Its one of those things that you have to have some self awareness and empathy to understand.

varian

The other day I told my art teacher that the reason there was a bit to much white paint on my painting was because I had accidentally squeezed too much out of the tube and I didn't want it to go to waste.

She said "Scottish"

Was that a racist remark?

Probably.

grannypiper

Alegrias1 I am a Jock and take no offense at being called one.

That's fine grannypiper, that's your prerogative.

But I do.

He must have know that his ill advised antisemitic tweets from many years ago would emerge

He didn't though. He was presented with them and had to look back to see if. they were actually his messages. Which they clearly were. He'd forgotten about them.

Had he remembered he'd no doubt have deleted them which he's now done.

The other day I told my art teacher that the reason there was a bit to much white paint on my painting was because I had accidentally squeezed too much out of the tube and I didn't want it to go to waste.

She said "Scottish"

Was that a racist remark?

It is indeed difficult to comprehend that a person who complains of racism is in fact himself a racist.

Alegrias1 I am a Jock and take no offense at being called one.

In a way, I am even more impressed with Azeem Rafiq's bravery.

He must have know that his ill advised antisemitic tweets from many years ago would emerge.

But he still stepped up to shine a light on racial prejudice in cricket.

He demonstrated, perhaps inadvertantly, that one type of prejudice can lead to another.

We need to stop all racism, sexism and unthinking prejudice in cricket and in all aspects of our lives.

A person who suffers racism who turns out not once but twice to tweet anti sementic rascist remarks.You could not write it.

Pedwards I read that the Dalai Lama said his faith has no great volumes of rules and holy relics, his simple philosophy is 'Be kind - it is always possible to be kind'. That struck such a chord with me. It is so simple, and like you I feel naive in saying this, but how different life would be if people thought about the effect they have on others with cruel words.

Listening to him made me so sad (I know he had since been found to have made anti Semitic and racist comments about black people when he was younger for which he apologised). Apart from anything else, all this hatred of ‘others’ is just a cruel waste of human potential.
I know I’m being naive, but why can’t we just be kind to each other?

No they are not “all as bad as each other” and where are caucasians the worst? If you really believe that certain peoples have not been discriminated on the basis of skin colour, with those with darker skin being systematically disadvantaged and abused in many ways then you truly must live in cloud cuckoo land.

‘There is racism and I know because I suffered it and was part of it’ might have been a more honest stance.

My son in law is a cricketer- plays for many clubs including the MCC. He teaches cricket too. His opinion is that Ballance is a ‘knob’ and Rafiq is just not very good at cricket- all I can say is that when Rafiq was filmed going into the room where he was was telling ‘his truth’ - he looked very smug.
Pot,kettle, black says it all. I wonder too why all these offended people didn’t complain at the time?