UK ‘dangerously close to elected dictatorship’ under Boris Johnson, Ken Clarke warns

MaizieD...I was talking about the subject of this thread, Ken Clarke ( bitter Remainer) so it was a relevant comment.
What is certainly not relevant is a tirade against anyone either on GN or in real life who voted to leave the EU five years ago.
Just as tedious requests for lists of benefits from a couple of posters are not relevant to this thread either.

I seem to have unintentionally insulted the working class with my stupid comment about "ignorant working class people" yesterday. I'm working class myself so that was definitely not what I meant. I meant that they were ignorant in voting for Johnson and thinking that he cared about them, not ignorant per se. Will be more careful how I phrase my responses in future

This thread is NOT about Ken Clarke, at all - he just happens to be the messenger!

The topic is clear in the title The UK is “dangerously close” to becoming an “elected dictatorship” under Boris Johnson – and his handling of Brexit.

As for lists of Brexit delights never appearing- we all know the real reason why, don't we. There are NONE, zilch, zero, niente, nichts, rien du tout, nada- at least none that would not be immediately cancelled by clear, strong denial, backed and proven by fact.

grannyrebel7

I seem to have unintentionally insulted the working class with my stupid comment about "ignorant working class people" yesterday. I'm working class myself so that was definitely not what I meant. I meant that they were ignorant in voting for Johnson and thinking that he cared about them, not ignorant per se. Will be more careful how I phrase my responses in future

I agree. How anyone working class could think the Tories would ever do anything in their favour, I really don't know. Now they're stuck without health care, jobs and even the extra £20 a week for Universal Credit has gone in favour of Tory friends and relatives.

lemongrove ''Just as tedious requests for lists of benefits from a couple of posters are not relevant to this thread either.''

well, the problem is, that on all the threads where it was 100% relevant- no answer has ever been given- not for days, weeks, months either - years even. So no wonder the polite request is repeated.

Tbh Lemon ,this thread is tedious hence as always, I can't really be bothered with it except to say that people voted for Brexit for many different reasons and are no obligation to be constantly asked or bullied into giving those reasons 5 years along the line or at any time come to that,simply to have those reasons trashed. I for one am absolutely certain that in the long term this country will thrive and be far better out of the dictatorship that is Brussels than if we were still caught up in that trap and what it may become. Who knows what is in the pipeline? An EU army is just one example, and there are many others.

No-one has recently asked why you voted- but what the benefits of this current Brexit (which is not at all the Brexit that was promised) are.

If you know they would be 'thrashed' (your words, not mine=- then you must know that they are easily thrashable!

I am glad that you are 'convinced' but tbh, it would be better to have more tangible facts, truly.

The latest attack on our Democratic processes is Johnson's intention to emasculate the Electorial Commision.

The Electorial Commisions independence will be scrapped because Johnson wants to set the priorities of the Commision rather than allow it as an independent watchdog over our election, set its own priorities.

Why?

If we want to maintain public confidence in our elections we must maintain and independent - free from political interference - oversight.

This body amongst others exists to protect our democracy.

Lord Evans - chairman of the Committee on Standards in Public Life, said that “this would be like giving a toddler a loaded gun. It may not immediately lead to disaster, but it is a very dangerous thing to do.”

Jabberwok

Tbh Lemon ,this thread is tedious hence as always, I can't really be bothered with it except to say that people voted for Brexit for many different reasons and are no obligation to be constantly asked or bullied into giving those reasons 5 years along the line or at any time come to that,simply to have those reasons trashed. I for one am absolutely certain that in the long term this country will thrive and be far better out of the dictatorship that is Brussels than if we were still caught up in that trap and what it may become. Who knows what is in the pipeline? An EU army is just one example, and there are many others.

Hmmm. Yes. We're doing so well, so far.

At what point will Brexit voters admit that the spurious reasons they were given for voting Brexit were all fantasy?

Never, I expect.

Far better to deflect any discussion about serious matters to personalised attacks on specific people.

It's difficult to admit, 'I wanted to get rid of foreigners' in a polite way, isn't it?

Even more so when after clear warnings that this would happen, with clear reasons given, that Brexit would make it much 'worse'.

There was one poster a little while ago who did give us a list of all the reasons she'd voted for Brexit, which she completely believed in. They were all nonsense, of course. I did tell her, with proof...

As I recall the mythical European Army came up there as well.

But she thought they were perfectly valid, which is why I think the Leave voters are so tired of us asking.

Kali there were plenty of GN's who gave their reasons for voting to leave the EU following the result of the referendum, and the responses received at the time from many were far from polite.

No wonder the exercise hasn't been repeated.

I agree Jabberwork this thread like so many on this forum is tedious and apart from this post, I can't be bothered with it either and judging by the same small number who do post and create these threads, we're not the only ones.

Just to mention that there has always been Brexit folk knocking around. Not just in the referendum

Was it Bill Cash who was constantly on about leaving the EU? Many people were keen to leave. My father had never wanted to join in the first place so would have been classed as a Brexiteer had he been around for the vote.

We also had the Referendum Party in the 90s

I voted to remain before anyone leaps on me but it is wrong to suggest that those who voted to leave were doing so purely and simply on what was said 5 or 6 years ago.

Whenever it was.

Yes, I understand that they find it annoying (bullying is hardly the word though). But if you only 'believe' that something as damaging for the country, or someone, or the combination!!! - and cannot possibly give any simple, sensible, tangible argument for this- then surely it is time to question said 'beliefs'. I mean, religion is one thing- but this is different.

So why would people not come up with a list, as requested so so many times? Well one reason is that they do not want to respond to a request, even a polite one. I get this- I mean, none of us like to be 'told' - understood.

But behind this reluctance, we all know the reason why. There are NONE, or at least NONE that would stand up to any scrutiny or fact whatsover.

You're entitled to your opinions as I am to mine, we'll never agree so will leave it at that. Incidentally the EU army in some shape or form, denied at the time I agree, does now seem a distinct possibility. I like others did give my reasons for my vote on here at the time, and yes it was roundly ridiculed and you're right Smiless 2012, I don't want a repeat performance and won't be goaded into giving it.

I think you would be happier if you accepted the inevitable Kali ( as in we have left the EU and there will be no going back.)
Move on, in other words, and enjoy life.
The pandemic has shown us how precious life is, and although you appear to be rather younger than many on GN, nobody live forever, so we need to appreciate what we have.
Life is too short to re-enact referendums, fume about the way people vote and live in disappointment.Truly.

And I mean that with complete sincerity.

lemongrove

I think you would be happier if you accepted the inevitable Kali ( as in we have left the EU and there will be no going back.)
Move on, in other words, and enjoy life.
The pandemic has shown us how precious life is, and although you appear to be rather younger than many on GN, nobody live forever, so we need to appreciate what we have.
Life is too short to re-enact referendums, fume about the way people vote and live in disappointment.Truly.

Just because we’re angry doesn’t necessarily mean we’re unhappy. And didn’t the anti EU lot (Rees Mogg, Farage, Cash etc) spend many years trying to get us out of Europe? I don’t remember you saying how they were wasting their lives by doing so.

Once again the leave voters son't seem to understand what is being asked of them. They're not being asked their reasons for voting leave. They are being asked to tell us how we have benefitted from leaving the EU. There is a difference.

lemongrove

I think you would be happier if you accepted the inevitable Kali ( as in we have left the EU and there will be no going back.)
Move on, in other words, and enjoy life.
The pandemic has shown us how precious life is, and although you appear to be rather younger than many on GN, nobody live forever, so we need to appreciate what we have.
Life is too short to re-enact referendums, fume about the way people vote and live in disappointment.Truly.

What a strawman argument!

Thinking Brexit was a really bad idea and that the country is suffering as a result doesn't mean that people want to re-enact referendums, fume or live in disappointment.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and, unless it's illegal, to express it. If you don't like that, maybe it's you who should be moving on.

Some people don't live their lives surrounded by trivia, shallowness or snarky comments.

All of the people behind brexit are slowly being discredited, first and foremost Boris Johnson.

lemongrove

I think you would be happier if you accepted the inevitable Kali ( as in we have left the EU and there will be no going back.)
Move on, in other words, and enjoy life.
The pandemic has shown us how precious life is, and although you appear to be rather younger than many on GN, nobody live forever, so we need to appreciate what we have.
Life is too short to re-enact referendums, fume about the way people vote and live in disappointment.Truly.

This is so extremely rude and condescending.

I have politely and repeatedly asked, for a list of positive effects of the Referendum. You refuse to do so, and I have above put the two reasons I believe you will not. And just like Johnson in HoC- you don't reply, but go on scathing attacks...

I don't boast about my life here- but I can attest that I have a wonderful and very happy life, a very privileged one for so many reasons. And I do appreciate what I have- and how lucky I am. Just come back from a wonderful walk in the meadows and woods with friends and dogs- Alps shining in the distance. 6km- with dappled sunshine. So no, you won't succeed on this one!

All I am asking for is for a list, short or long- on those positive Brexit factors. But I also know that you won't- because you can't. And we all know that.

The Nationality and Borders bill will enable the government to talk away British citizenship without notice or right to appeal.