The foolishness of anti-vaxxers

@Athenia. The VAERS website has a disclaimer to the effect that anyone can report anything and just because someone has developed a health problem or has died after the Covid vaccination, does not mean that they are linked.

There is a meme doing the rounds of a long list of chemicals and the question “would you put these in your body?” to catch out the “I wouldn’t put chemicals in my body” anti vaxxers
(the catch is it’s apparently the chemical composition of an apple…)

nightowl

Presumably Christine Cotton as a biostatistician is fully aware of these factors and extremely well versed in interpreting statistics.

Oh yes of course she is,

I did say it was statistically sound.

But statisticians work with the data and methods of data collection have to be questioned if the conclusions are to be meaningful.

Of course she is very experienced and will be able to interpret her findings meaningfully. But I do think it is presented in a very complicated way that is open to misinterpretation in the public arena.

My brother developed pains in his arms and legs the day after his 2nd vaccination, he now has to take a heart tablet and steriods daily.
Many women have had altered menstruation. What else is not yet known I wonder.

*Susan55
I also think it is important to point out here that the 'vaccine' being given out so freely at this time is NOT the same as any other 'vaccine' anyone might have had in the past - such as measles, chicken pox, mumps, etc, etc. The Covid vaccine is a completely different technology and still very much in experimental stages on such a large scale. So I can't follow any argument that suggests that if you have previously been vaccinated against flu, malaria, tetanus, or whatever, then this is no different.

It IS different. To call it a 'vaccine' is a misnomer and a little misleading for the general population because it gives the impression it is the same, and it is NOT.

Oh how I wish people wouldn’t keep posting nonsense about the vaccine being ‘experimental’. It is NOT. Claims that vaccines are “experimental”, have skipped animal testing and have not completed initial research trials are ALL false.

This was a claim made in a Facebook post entitled   “6 facts about the 3 vaccines” and has been widely discredited. According to the post, all vaccines are considered experimental. This is not true – they have all been put through standard safety testing before being rolled out to the public. 

Both the United States and UK have authorized the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines for emergency use, while the former has also authorized shots by Johnson & Johnson; the latter by Oxford/AstraZeneca. 

Emergency use authorization (EUA) in the US and UK has been issued as a result of the severity of the pandemic. When the pandemic is over, the EUA will cease and vaccine manufacturers will need to apply for full approval.

I wonder how many lives the willingness of anti vaxers to believe this rubbish and worse, to try to get others to believe it, has cost.

And so it starts again. There is so much animosity and dare I say hatred on these threads and I really think some people just like to throw a bomb into the room and watch it explode!
Some people do not want to be vaccinated for whatever reason they may have...leave them alone., it is their choice. At the moment we still have SOME free choice. Don't hold your breath at this rate it won't last much longer. Its the same with the face mask debacle, all those screaming and shouting (behind their masks) answer this. If masks are so effective why does Wales, Scotland and NI still have such high case numbers when they have never stopped wearing them. What about the explosion in cases in Germany and other EU countries where they have never stopped wearing masks.
As for the idea of more boosters no thank you. I am not going to be injected with a 4th one. I have developed hives since having my vaccines, at the booster when I mentioned this she said oh that's on the list of 'severe reactions' ! look it up on the comirnaty leaflet.

Presumably Christine Cotton as a biostatistician is fully aware of these factors and extremely well versed in interpreting statistics.

Peasblossom Exactly

I’ve had a look at the VAERS website. Whilst I think it’s statistically sound I do have some concerns about methods of data collection and interpretation for those who are not well versed in interpreting statistics.

I can’t find her methods for verifying reports of adverse affects eg medical confirmation. So unless somebody can point me to that I have to assume that anybody who is anti ax could make numerous false reports.

Secondly, I think the correlation between vaccination and cause of death is questionable. There doesn’t seem to be any control group to compare with
eg an 82 year old man who died of a cardiac infarction after receiving vaccine. But cardiac infarction in an 82 year old is not an unusual event.

A woman in her 30s who died during delivery of her third child, three months after receiving vaccine..

To attribute these events to the vaccine, without referral to normal statistical likelihood, is doubtful at least.

It also strikes me that in expressing statistics in percentages can mislead. Eg 5% had this adverse reaction. That is 5% of those who reported to VAERS. Not 5% of those who received the vaccine.

It’s interesting but at the moment actually fairly meaningless.

Athenia I haven’t checked Christine Cotton’s analysis yet but will do so. On the VAERS site people can report any symptoms they have had after receiving a vaccination. It’s important to note that the site states that any reports of symptoms after vaccination cannot be considered as being caused by the vaccination. I believe that people have to click a disclaimer box to show they have understood that fact. Sadly it seems that misinterpretation of the information on VAERS is the source of all the genocide claims.

In my mind the true way to sort out the conspiracy theorists and the genuinely scared is to do what some other countries are doing.
Vaccine passports. No passport no entry. It would have to be a genuine passport though so that it cannot be forged.

Anti vaxxers that I know are just driving me nuts now. The rubbish they spout about their reasons for not getting jabbed is ridiculous. One pumps fillers into her face, but won't get something that might save her life!
The vaccine is free, it can save you life, just take it. Taking up hospital ICU beds that needed for other sick people needing life threating cancers, heart trouble, etc, they should be ashamed of themselves for not stepping up.

French Biostatistician, Christine Cotton, recently began her own research and analysis of the VAERS vaccine adverse effect data, to establish a better understanding of what the real risks of vaccination are and their particular nature and probability. To do this she downloaded the raw VAERS data so as to evaluate it line by line. Shocked by what she discovered Christine began to speak out on her own data and findings with a view to informing the wider public of the real risks of vaccinations against the benefits claimed.

In a valuable and informative interview with UKColumn, Chrisine Cotton divided a presentation of her work into two parts. Part 1 begins with an introduction to herself and her professional work as a biostatistician. This is followed by a detailed analysis of the complex procedures and regulations required of pharmaceutical companies in developing new vaccines. The results of her analysis of the procedural and regulatory steps taken to introduce COVID-19 emergency vaccines led Christine to conclude that it was simply not possible to develop, test and unleash the suite of COVID-19 vaccines on the US and world population, in a manner and timeframe which met all the then existing public health and vaccine safety constraints, checks and regulations. In short the development and vaccine roll-out was just too fast to justify the vaccine safety and efficacy claims made.

Christine concludes from her analysis of the implementation of the COVID-19 vaccination programme and the VAERS data itself that the vaccines carry significant health risks to all members of the public be they children, grown adults or the elderly. Within this cross section of society additional risks are identifyable for pregnant women and their babies. The risks deserve special attention when it is realised that they include life changing disabilities and even death.

Analysis of US VAERS Vaccine Adverse Reactions Data by Biostatistician Christine Cotton Part 2 focuses on the identification of key vaccine adverse health risks within the body of the VAERS data. Her findings make stark reading against the continuing claim by the US government and US Public Health agencies that vaccines are safe and that their benefits outweigh the risks.
www.ukcolumn.org

Why do anti-vaxxers not realise the possible effects on others and the additional strains on the NHS? This is a global pandemic and we need to take every possible precaution.

Those vaccinated (and those who are not because of medical reasons) should be issued with an ID-type card to allow them to access public indoor places. If you don't have one - you can't enter.

Whitewavemark2 - Your post is so powerful, I shall post it on my Facebook page.

I really don't know where you're getting this information from? Different? The production of vaccines is THE SAME for all the only differences being the differing genomes used for different viruses. Trials were done super quick only because SO many people were infected so very quickly, usually they have to wait for enough infections to present to Carry out trials, sadly with covid there was a ready made population of hundreds of 1000s of people infected at the same time. another factor was the funding, usually part gov funds and private sector, charities etc, with covid funding was made available immediately by gov alone and no delays due to raising investment. You need to research how business works as well as how the nasty pixies who are trying to change our DNA so we all DIE!!!

Sad but she's ONE .in how many? There are casualties from all sorts of medical interventions all the time. Because of rampant social media, now we hear about every single one relating to vaccines. 1000s die Each year in course of operations but it doesn't out me off having surgery that may well save my life! Your argument is a non runner IMO

growstuff, you need to tell your partner who actually worked on the vaccine that he really needs to search the internet for the true information.

DH and I were talking about this at lunchtime, when Jeremy Vine had some other random person on telling us what they thought about Covid. The reduction in the deference of the general population is probably a good thing. But when did it become acceptable to think that as a member of the public you know better than someone who has studied, researched and worked on something for decades?

Mamma66 totally agree. I have relatives who, following the advice of anti vaxxer Dr Mer cola, are “well prepared” with a nebuliser for hydro chloroquine and ivermectin bran (which is a wormer for their horse). They think they’ll be fine with that and that the vaccinations are all planned genocide. They constantly feel the need to keep me informed because “ they’re doing the research” and they think doctors are stupid. I just grit my teeth and pray they don’t catch Covid. They are beyond listening to anyone apart from the anti vaxxers.

Growstuff, I don't think you can say it is 'nonsense'. Anyone who comes in and says 'nonsense' to something you say is obviously on the defensive, and you have to wonder why. If is is an attempt at a put down in an effort to make your own argument stronger, I won't fall for it.

The covid vaccine is a new technology and in using the word new I don't mean it was created last week or last year. Of course they have been working on it for a very, very long time. However, it is 'new' in terms of using it across the whole world in such large numbers on a trial basis.

And it IS different from what many, many people understand to be a vaccine, as mentioned in a previous post. It is NOT like the measles, flu, mumps, tetanus, etc etc vaccine. It uses a different technology and this is not hidden from public view. It's all over every website about the coronavirus vaccine. It is different from the conventional vaccines that most of us will have had in the past. Any search on the internet of 'How does the covid vaccine differ from traditional vaccines? will show the difference between them. I don't agree with you that all vaccines are the same. Yes, they are the same in that both try to help the immune system overcome a virus, but the method for doing so is entirely different.

It is widely understood by the whole population of every single country that data is continually being collected. Why? Because they are trying to find out what works and what doesn't. They are trying to find out what is safe and what isn't. There can be no argument about that because it is a fact.

It is widely known that the covid vaccine is on trial. It has not yet been properly approved because testing has not been completed. It has only been approved on an 'emergency use basis' with no liability for adverse effects by the developers.

Don't come in and say 'nonsense'. Talking like that doesn't find truths. It hides truth.

At what point does anti vaxxers human rights supersede mine?

FWIW I think my own experience of this weird weird virus gives me a perspective on both sides.
In March 2020 I believe I had the gastric variation of covid. As this was way before testing and wasn't a recognised symptom then I have no way of knowing for sure but life has been miserable since as I believe I developed long covid, showing many of the related symptoms - fatigue, mind fog, constant flu like inflammation. After my first vaccine - pfizer - I had a bad UTI which had to be treated with antibiotics, after my second pfizer jab I went down with a severe case of shingles (still suffering resultant PHN nerve damage) THEN in October I tested positive for the dreaded Covid itself despite being double vaccinated and can't seem to get well no matter what I do.
Even so, I am obviously one of the fortunate ones as I'm still here to tell the tale but I'm now in a quandry about having a booster, fearful of another possible reaction.
So, I understand an antivax position up to a certain point. The huge problem is it is so random, so unproven, so inexplicable in all it's forms and mutations it's impossible to take up a failsafe position. If I'm being utterly honest, I believe all we can do is act in good conscience to try and safeguard society and hope for the best.

Well said

Totally agree with everything you have said SAGO and can't honestly believe some of the comments on here I am double vaccinated and boosted before any comments none of us know how you going to react to these vaccines

Susan55

I also think it is important to point out here that the 'vaccine' being given out so freely at this time is NOT the same as any other 'vaccine' anyone might have had in the past - such as measles, chicken pox, mumps, etc, etc. The Covid vaccine is a completely different technology and still very much in experimental stages on such a large scale. So I can't follow any argument that suggests that if you have previously been vaccinated against flu, malaria, tetanus, or whatever, then this is no different.

It IS different. To call it a 'vaccine' is a misnomer and a little misleading for the general population because it gives the impression it is the same, and it is NOT.

That's absolute nonsense. All the different vaccines are vaccines. The technology didn't just appear overnight. Scientists have been working on the various technologies for years.

Oops! The documentary 'The Antivax Conspiracy' on C4 provided insight into the Antivax movement, not as I wrote the anti-tax movement. Apologies.