The foolishness of anti-vaxxers

My gd has a stupid mother does that count as genetics

Very interesting photo! I am fairly relaxed about the non vaccinated to be honest, I am triple vaccinated, take sensible precautions without affecting the way I live my life and frankly, they are more at risk from me infecting them unwittingly than the other way round. There are tragic anomalies such as the blood clots mentioned, and I am sure if someone in my family suffered from a similar reaction I would have given a great deal of thought to my own vaccination decision. I am very strongly against any kind of punishment for non vaccination as it will just enforce alienation and potentially make heroes out of anti-vaxxers, and I honestly don't see how vaccination can be made compulsory; the inevitable end to that has to be the knock on the door and forcible injection and that is too dreadful to even think about. We all take chances with life; getting in a car, having a baby, climbing a mountain, refusing a vaccine, drinking one too many glasses of wine, and I really don't want to see some sort of morality panel deciding who qualifies for NHS treatment.

I do wonder if those refusing the vaccine are against all vaccinations or just the covid ones?
If it’s the latter what is the main objection?
I’ve repeatedly read the accusation that the covid ones haven’t been tested in the long term, that they’ve only been around for a year.
That is true but the vaccine only stays in our bodies a short length of time, possibly a couple of days, (someone may know how long) so we’ve surely had masses of time to assess results over the hundreds of millions of people worldwide who’ve had them.

I don't understand the anti vaxxers logic either. If they were sick they would take the prescribed medicines. Would they check to see whether they were harmful?

I've mentioned it before that here in France we have to show our covid passports whenever we go to the theatre, cinema, club, restaurant etc. If that rule was instituted in the UK I'm sure that the anti vaxxers would fall into line fairly quickly.

*not wavering on getting it, but just getting it straight away vs waiting a handful of months

Hetty58

I must admit that I was so pleased to hear today's news from Greece (fines for the unvaccinated) - and Austria considering fines too.

Normally, I'm all for freedom of choice. That doesn't extend to freedom to infect others during a pandemic, though.

For me, that’s too slippery a slope.

Make it harder to go places, but fines abs mandatory vaccines do not sit well with me for the general public. It’s too easy to then move to other medical procedures. Lack of abortion access for one.

I say this as someone who did receive their vaccination as soon as possible despite earlier wavering

Calistemon

Another question:

Why did a healthy 50 year old double vaccinated woman die from Covid if the vaccines are effective?
Why did a man of similar age, ill and in hospital for another reason, caught Covid in hospital, have no symptoms?

Because nothing in life is certain, only more or less probable.

Not to mention the chemicals involved if the die
Embalming fluid contains formaldehyde, methanol, glutaraldehyde and so much more.
Better to take the chemical in the jab now to avoid all the rest later.

sodapop

I read that the USA will fine people on a monthly basis until they have the vaccine. It's a shame they don't concentrate their efforts on getting affordable health care for everyone

I think it must just be some states. My son lives in Illinois and they’ve been fairly relaxed about it all.

Some of his friends and neighbours don’t intend to have them.

He and the family had to jabs as they work in healthcare, colleges etc Plus, he had booked to come home last month for a holiday, and they all needed to be jabbed to travel.

My adult gd won’t have it for this reason despite me asking about the chemicals going into her body when she dyes her hair , anyway I am going to send her this,

I read that the USA will fine people on a monthly basis until they have the vaccine. It's a shame they don't concentrate their efforts on getting affordable health care for everyone

I don't agree with withholding treatment either, but as we live in a society which says where you can and cannot smoke as it effects other people, I don't see that making restrictions on the unvaccinated is any different.

There is a knock on affect that means any treatment for others is at risk of being postponed until they are seriously ill.

I am another who can't understand the logic of anti-vaxxers - however, I don't believe they should either be denied or charged for NHS treatment if they catch the virus.

If NHS treatment becomes reliant on people observing certain criteria where could it lead - become vegetarian or don't get treated, don't smoke or don't get treated, don't drink or don't get treated or even vote for a certain party or don't get treated!

Like others, I too know people who happily use botox , which of course is a toxin, yet refuse to have the vaccine!

I have read that they are looking at genetic reasons for the disparity.

Yes, that is most probably why and there will be a lot of research carried out in future to work out why, which, how.
We know so much more now about genetic predispositions to disease.

I hope it means the world will be better prepared next time something similar to this happens because there will be a next time.

It's all the more reason not to take chances, as far as I'm concerned, and I'd rather others didnt take the chance of infecting me.

Surely that is just the way things turn out?
I have read that they are looking at genetic reasons for the disparity.
At the same time, why did my daughter's cancer kill her when others have lived?
Some things just are, because they are.

Another question:

Why did a healthy 50 year old double vaccinated woman die from Covid if the vaccines are effective?
Why did a man of similar age, ill and in hospital for another reason, caught Covid in hospital, have no symptoms?

Brilliant picture Whitewave. I do hope any anti vaxxers on here take note, although apart from two or three, I think we’re all pretty much in agreement. Perhaps this picture should be used by the government and displayed on billboards.
I don’t think I needed all that when I was in hospital, but I certainly required a lot of it. Oxygen for twelve days and approximately 8/9 different drugs.

The foolishness of anti-vaxxers

Should they be condemned?
Should we punish people because the rest of society believes they are foolish?
If the majority are fully vaccinated should we worry about those who are not for whatever reason?
If the vaccines are effective in preventing the disease or reducing its effects why are the fully vaccinated so angry with those who choose not to be?
The fully vaccinated should be protected.

Unfortunately that is not always the case. A local healthy, double vaccinated 50 year old has just died from Covid. She hadn't been overseas.

How many people caught Covid before the vaccinations were available and have as much, if not more, immunity than a vaccinated person?

I have been vaccinated but I think there are still more questions than answers.

ayse

Growstuff

Interested to find out more about T2. Just skimmed an interesting article www.diabetes.co.uk/causes-of-type2-diabetes.html

I’m sure you know this already but I’ve posted the link in case others are interested.

I don't have any of the most common risk factors. It's possible that I carry some kind of mutated gene, although I don't have a family history. Chronic stress could have been a factor, but it hasn't been that well researched.

My point really is that I don't think people should be fined/charged for treatment, even if many of those with the same condition are partly responsible. Even though I'm passionate about vaccines, I don't agree that people should be denied treatment or charged for it.

Hetty58

Urmstongran, no, not inducements - disincentives is the way to go for the unvaccinated.

With respect Hetty58, that is your opinion. It's not mine.

FWIW, I don't think inducements are the way either. Treating adults like children who need to be punished or rewarded is not the action of a civilised society.

Growstuff

Interested to find out more about T2. Just skimmed an interesting article www.diabetes.co.uk/causes-of-type2-diabetes.html

I’m sure you know this already but I’ve posted the link in case others are interested.

Urmstongran, no, not inducements - disincentives is the way to go for the unvaccinated.

ayse

Growstuff

I know not all those with T2 diabetes have a lifestyle challenge. No offence was intended. That’s the trouble with generalisations, they are a catch all.

I agree that nobody should be charged at the point of medical care. Most of us pay of have paid our taxes and some choose to pay additionally for private treatment.

I'm not offended, but I have lost count of the number of times I've read that T2 is caused by an unhealthy lifestyle. It wasn't in my case and I know others in the same situation. I wish I did know what caused it and that people wouldn't generalise.