Relationship between France and UK

Thank you Alegrias. I will send you my Christmas card, which I am convinced Boris stole the idea from!

Josianne

I think in terms of cyber security and international intelligence France does depend on the UK to a great extent. We are actually the leading nation in this field.

Under the little known LHA. Which I believe has not been changed throughout Brexit.

Alegrias1
whether it is true or not It is.

Josianne

Take this as an example form earlier in the thread:
Same with ALL our friends- from Uni Professors, business men and women, farmers, engineers, butchers, bakers, builders, CEOs of major companies ... they ALL know what he is up to- and they ALL say he is mad as a hatter!
I think that is what is being discussed is all exaggeratiio here.

As an aside, I may not have so many friends in France, but the one I respect the most most is one of the highest authorities. A contre-amiral in the French navy, and yes I was present when he was decorated by Giscard d"Estaing. This wise, now old man, had many conversations with me during the Brexit time and was humble enough to even say that the French needed us far more than we needed them in terms of Defence.
I am all for hearing different views, but lumping the whole argument under the bad heading is totally false reporting and a joke.

Your friend is very probably correct but it's still a very weak argument for leaving. Nearly all relationships are unequal, that does not mean they are not mutually beneficial. I probably need my DP more than they need me, but they still need me.

The flaw the Brexiters commit all the time, in this argument and in many of the others they propose (and I'm not necessarily lumping you in this camp Josianne), is that it's a zero sum game. Or to put it more crudely, if France is gaining something we must be losing something.

I agree Petera that it shouldn't be a point scoring exercise on either side because anyone can come up with press stories and videos to suit their side of the argument. The scales appear to certainly be tipping the wrong way for the UK at the moment, and yes by our own undoing. I would just be dismayed to think all my European acquaintances wanted to hurl insults about whoever were the PM, whatever his shortcomings, every time I saw them. I would think they were obsessed and as you say just looking to play a crude game of one upmanship.

MerylStreep

I wonder why the whole world is looking at us when, according to some, we have no standing on the world stage.
It’s one or the other, isn’t it.

Because Great Britain was very important and was very respected. Many of the articles and TV news and interviews, etc, on European TV channels- express a mix of dismay, but also to some extent of shock, that Great Britain has sunk so low, and has chosen a PM who is considered now as worse than Trump. Believe me or not- I truly am not bothered.

MerylStreep

Maggiemaybe
Maybe it’s just in the Swiss press. ?

Not at all. Although it is particularly relevant in Switzerland now- as they are in the middle of making a similar, terrible, mistake. Geography is also massively important in this case, just as, but totally differently, as for the UK.

Kali2

twitter.com/AlexTaylorNews/status/1466122815464169476?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1466122815464169476%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvoxpoliticalonline.com%2F2021%2F12%2F04%2Fthis-french-critique-of-borisjohnson-is-bitingly-accurate-how-others-see-us-video%2F

I do wonder if any of you have actually clicked on this on French TV - just one of the many- but it certainly made people talk! And laugh too, like the other journalists /politicians on the panel.

'Ils ne boxent pas dans la même catégorie' - they are totally on a different level.

Most French friends I spoke to thought Brexit was a bad mistake by the UK and I think they are right. Boris of course has to pretend it was a brilliant idea, supported by most of the press. He's not a clown despite his behaviour: he is a clever and ruthless operator who used Brexit as a staging post to the PM job regardless of the impact on the rest of us and the pandemic has been a useful cover for the deficiencies of Brexit. Our problem is we don't seem to grow politicians of any real stature and statesmanlike qualities any more whatever party one thinks about.

Our problem is we don't seem to grow politicians of any real stature and statesmanlike qualities any more whatever party one thinks about.

What's the point of 'growing politicians of any real stature' when the electorate are quite happy with a clown?

I have no idea whether the whole world is watching or not, but I can assure you that Johnson's doings are regularly reported in the Danish Press - factually and usually in a way that leaves the listener or reader to make up their own minds about whether his behaviour is suitable for a prime minister, or not.

Likewise, the drowning of 27 refugees in the channel was reported, as was the fact that the French were willing to offer these refugees homes and work in France, but that the refugees are apparently still convinced that the UK is a land of plenty and of freedom and much, much better than anywhere else and are therefore determined to get to Britain.

Whether you like it or not, Britain is now a "third country" seen from the EU's point of view, so if you try to turn the refugees who survive the crossing of the channel back to us, we are fully justified in refusing to take them in. They could and should have applied for asylum in the first EU country they entered, whether it was Spain, Greece, Italy, Hungary or anywhere else.

Whether the EU will refuse to take in any refugees the UK refuses entry to, I do not know, not having had the opportunity to find out what the recent conference amongst the EU countries who have a sea coast facing the UK has concluded.

Kali2

Josianne

his cake and eat it
Another difference on the subject of taste between us, the French say have his butter.

Seriously I can't see the whole world watching what Boris is up to. My Breton farming friends really don't give a stuff. Maybe they are too busy eating Brittany butter and just take it all with a pinch of salt (Guérande, of course).

le beurre et le prix du beurre ... et la laitière aussi

Butter and the butter money... and the milkmaid too)

I can assure you the whole world IS watching. I have coffee with my neighbours a couple of time a week, 2 are farmers and 1 a cleaning lady. And each time they say 'il est complètement tarré votre Johnson, totalement gaga' tapping the side of their head, toc toc.

They are not at all interested in politics- but they know about Johnson. And they regularly say he is even worse than Trump.

Same with all our friends- from Uni Professors, business men and women, farmers, engineers, butchers, bakers, builders, CEOs of major companies ... they all know what he is up to- and they all say he is mad as a hatter!

Probably more correct to say that everyone in your world is as obsessed as you are and desperate for the uk to flounder!

Don’t you bore yourself?

As someone who, following the disaster of Brexit decided to move back to the UK after 21 years, I agree with M Macron ...how on earth does an international 'leader' and PM utter such total rubbish when he forgot his lines at an international conference and went on about PEPPA PIG......no wonder France and most of Europe think he is a clown ....I cannot believe he is still our Prime Minister,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,surely there must be another role for him somewhere (LaLaLand springs to mind ,,,,,,,,,,,,,Send in the Clowns ...or maybe they're here ............

There was the time he referred to a frog at a climate conference, people in the UK may have understood immediately but living in another country I didn’t. He thinks it’s funny, others are just left mystified.

I think the problem here is both macron and Johnson have big egos but the everyday English man or woman and the French man or woman couldn't really give a dam about either we all just want to get on with our lives

Macron is electioneering.

katy1950

I think the problem here is both macron and Johnson have big egos but the everyday English man or woman and the French man or woman couldn't really give a dam about either we all just want to get on with our lives

And the Scots and the Welsh are left wondering how they got into this mess in the first place...

katy1950

I think the problem here is both macron and Johnson have big egos but the everyday English man or woman and the French man or woman couldn't really give a dam about either we all just want to get on with our lives

You're right there katy1950, the everyday English man or woman seems more interested in voting for David Ginola to be crowned "roi du jungle." Now that would be a turn up for the books.

Well I must be going around wearing ear muffs because only time anyone mentions wars etc is in history classes at school. Obviously us adults have better things to talk about not two grown men fighting over there toys they are both as bad has each other.

Haven’t the French always been at loggerheads with us? There is such a lot of bad blood and horrible history between our countries. I think they thoroughly dislike us and the feeling is often mutual. We have nothing in common…

Fernhillnana

Haven’t the French always been at loggerheads with us? There is such a lot of bad blood and horrible history between our countries. I think they thoroughly dislike us and the feeling is often mutual. We have nothing in common…

No. No. NO.

What is wrong with people that makes them say that? Really?

How many French people do your know? Have you lived there? Worked for a French company? Owned property there?

What are you basing this outlandish claim on? Allo Allo?

Been reading the Daily Mail again, probably.

Kamiso ''Probably more correct to say that everyone in your world is as obsessed as you are and desperate for the uk to flounder!''

you obviously have not read my posts about my neighbours- they are people who have no vested interests in the issues, and are not interested in politics at all. But they are now fully aware of Johnson's crazy, lying, and worse behaviour. And that truly says something!

I think URMSTONGRAM needs a bit of support here. You've all done a good job of silencing her.

That would be a first.

I don't think there is anything wrong with anyone on either side Alegrias, just a soupçon of mistrust that is difficult to put a finger on. I have done all the above you mention, even falling in love, and getting married under French law, but the comments that stick forever are, "you British are ok, once we get to know you!" as though we somehow have to earn their approval and respect. We are each very different, which for me is fine, but for others maybe not so much.