News that could become political ?. Tornados in the USA and our inability to afford to keep the sea back in the south of England

Easy to dismiss being raised out of poverty if it doesnt affect you. Many many people will die if not lifted from poverty and it is capitalism that will do that. The world is going to end is very easy to say but it's more complex than that.

Galaxy

Easy to dismiss being raised out of poverty if it doesnt affect you. Many many people will die if not lifted from poverty and it is capitalism that will do that. The world is going to end is very easy to say but it's more complex than that.

You are missing the point here. This thread is focussed on the climate disaster.

We could of course focus on world poverty, but that is another thread.

The two are not linked unless you recognise that the poorer you are the less carbon you produce.

They are very much linked. The way to raise those people out of poverty is to support the further development of towns and cities in those countries, to ensure they are producing all the toys of capitalism, look at India, in other words to up their carbon footprint. We need to balance this. Saying we are all going to die within four years is not helpful in terms of tackling the problem. I know this is a thread about climate change but I find the discussions on it so unhelpful. You cant solve problems with such broad narratives. I dont mean people on this thread I mean in general. And even asking questions is usually met with such resistance that its not worth it in the end.

In a few years that should say not four, that would be very specific

What my argument is that the countries in which many if these poor people live will become inhabitable within the very near future.

There will be no country.

Those people will be forced to leave regardless of how poor they are.

I can’t see what the focus on poverty in this context is achieving?

I've reduced xmas buying of such things like Xmas cards. I buy very few also ones with no glitter so I can recycle them. No Tinstle either. People buy cheap rubbish which gets thrown away on boxing day.

The way to raise people out of poverty is to ensure that they can use their own land to produce their own food.

Grandmagrim

The way to raise people out of poverty is to ensure that they can use their own land to produce their own food.

Unless of course the conditions are such that growing anything is impossible.

Exactly. Until humanity focuses on not destroying the climate, the soil, the land, air, water table the very environment around every community on the planet! Until every such community can feed itself poverty will only become more and more prevalent. Capitalism won’t solve it.

It's not I am afraid its capitalism with all its bells and whistles and Christmas eve boxes. Otherwise we would all be sat in this country individually producing vegetables rather than being one of the richest countries. But it's easy to think that a person in Africa producing just enough food to eat is not in poverty. Again India is a prime example of success in this way. 160 million raised out of poverty in a few years. My guess is their carbon footprint grew beyond description in that time. All I am saying is there are balances to be struck and not looking at some of the unexpected consequences wont help.

What are the unexpected consequences?

160 million people not being raised out of poverty. Well perhaps not that dramatic. I am as bad as those saying we are all going to die tomorrow. It depends what your solutions are. If its asking people to just farm for food rather than participate in the capitalism exploding in their countries then yes for those people there will be consequences.

But there is no time! We absolutely must focus on the disaster now upon us.

2/3rds of the African continent are affected by severe drought. The central belt from Guinea to Mozambique are affected by severe flooding.

The rise in temperature will soon become not possible to live with in many areas.

How on earth do you propose to introduce “capitalism” always assuming (and I don’t) that the many countries on the continent are not part of the system.

So what is your answer Ww2.?
Ban all flights. Ban all petrol cars. Immediately. Ban all gas fired boilers as of now?
Difficult questions.

Several people I know are moaning about drop in imports like flowers and food at IKEA.
We must grow our own. Cut down distribution costs.
No holidays abroad unless by sail ships.etc etc

I have a real problem with going over fully to electric cars having seen the heartbreaking videos/pictures coming out of Africa. Children as young as 4 and 5 mining for the ore which is one of the main components in the batteries. Electric vehicles have a large carbon footprint which takes many years to become neutral

Mind you these ores are needed for microchips which are an integral part of our day to day lives.

As for banning all flights, some far flung destinations rely on tourism to keep themselves going, it provides employment for whole villages and regions which in turn keeps schools and medical facilities open.

There is no doubt that something, if not many things need to be done, but what is not needed is a knee jerk reaction which in the long run could possible exacerbate the situation.

loopyloo

So what is your answer Ww2.?
Ban all flights. Ban all petrol cars. Immediately. Ban all gas fired boilers as of now?
Difficult questions.

Several people I know are moaning about drop in imports like flowers and food at IKEA.
We must grow our own. Cut down distribution costs.
No holidays abroad unless by sail ships.etc etc

I think if WWM2 knew the answers she would have been in charge of COP26. I'm assuming she's not Alok Sharma. Or even David Attenborough.

Growing our own tulips and not importing Swedish meatballs isn't really going to help. (Yes, I am being facetious)

What we need is completely radical overhaul of our energy generating strategy and manufacturing capabilities across the whole world.

I notice that the Cambo oilfield development has been "paused". Not out of altruism, but because its no longer economically viable, I expect. So there's your answer - subsidise the industries that we need to have in the future and stop giving money to the ones that are causing climate change.

GrannyGravy13

I have a real problem with going over fully to electric cars having seen the heartbreaking videos/pictures coming out of Africa. Children as young as 4 and 5 mining for the ore which is one of the main components in the batteries. Electric vehicles have a large carbon footprint which takes many years to become neutral

Mind you these ores are needed for microchips which are an integral part of our day to day lives.

As for banning all flights, some far flung destinations rely on tourism to keep themselves going, it provides employment for whole villages and regions which in turn keeps schools and medical facilities open.

There is no doubt that something, if not many things need to be done, but what is not needed is a knee jerk reaction which in the long run could possible exacerbate the situation.

We need to have a long term strategy, which is why its so difficult. The misinformation about the breakeven time of electric cars is designed to make you think we shouldn't have electric cars.

And even if it were true - which it isn't - then we need to come up with better batteries for electric cars.

I was going to say it isn't rocket science, but maybe it is

Yes all that but I am also wondering what is going to happen when the climate refugees begin to knock on our door.

Hydrogen fuel is also being actively developed. That will hopefully replace our gas for heating.

We are not doing enough quickly enough. I too have read about women who are not going to have children, and I worry about my great=grandchildren; two is enough, their parents do not intend any more.

The problem of overpopulation can't be overemphasised: the population of the UK (figures out today) has increased by getting on for SIX MILLION since the last census.

It is not possible for this planet to support a continually increasing number of people.

Queen Elizabeth owns most of the U.K. seabed. That's slowing conservation work.
The royal family is called on to help recover Britain's biodiversity, starting with royal properties.

Queen Elizabeth is well known as one of the largest landowners in the world. Less well known is that her holdings include most of the seabed encircling the United Kingdom, out to 12 nautical miles from shore.

That eye-popping detail of monarchal history is being seen in a new light as Britain’s declining biodiversity gains attention and the royal family has been urged to take on greater leadership in restoring nature—starting with the properties they control.

Yet lately efforts to restore coastal waters have encountered obstacles unique to this monarchy—ones that have chased a kelp farmer to a more welcoming reception in southeast Asia, for example, and that threaten to derail the largest effort to replant seagrass ever undertaken in Britain.

www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/queen-elizabeth-owns-most-of-the-uk-seabed-slowing-conservation

Alie2Oxon

We are not doing enough quickly enough. I too have read about women who are not going to have children, and I worry about my great=grandchildren; two is enough, their parents do not intend any more.

The problem of overpopulation can't be overemphasised: the population of the UK (figures out today) has increased by getting on for SIX MILLION since the last census.

It is not possible for this planet to support a continually increasing number of people.

Nearly 2 million of those 6 million are over 65. That's not surprising. People are living longer and the "baby boom" generation is getting older. What should we do with them all? Put them down?

Queen Elizabeth is well known as one of the largest landowners in the world.

You know, I really, really doubt that..

MaizieD

^Queen Elizabeth is well known as one of the largest landowners in the world.^

You know, I really, really doubt that..

I think she is.

www.businessinsider.com/worlds-biggest-landowners-2011-3?r=US&IR=T#1-queen-elizabeth-ii-15

Coming in at number one...

www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/is-queen-elizabeth-ii-worlds-biggest-landowner.html/