Sunak and his quiet trip to USA

Whitewavemark2

“ Mr Sunak, the NHS isn’t yours to sell. It belongs to the nation. Perhaps you could ask the nation if it wants to privatise it? After all no-one voted for this, it wasn’t on your manifesto was it? If you’re so fond of referendums why not one for the NHS?”

... not a chance. But you're right, it belongs to us. Isn't around 80% funded from our taxes?

But of course, the NHS would never be sold wholesale - there would be riots. So the Tories will continue to salami-slice the privatisation and we will find more and more services and procedures that are not available unless you pay for them.

I hope everyone who is still planning to vote Tory in the next election is well aware of this, especially as in our age group, we are more likely to need the NHS.

I guess there are those who are financially comfortable enough to pay for private health insurance and think it's a good idea. I am, but I don't think it is.

The problem with private health insurance is the risk - and the risk is that you will develop a disease that is complex and costly, and your insurance will not cover the necessary treatments and procedures which your doctor / consultant thinks are necessary. And then you will be in for protracted discussions, phone calls, letter writing, emailing, to get your insurers to cover the cost. Or simply pay up, out of your own pocket.

I give an example. A friend of mine in the US (now deceased) needed a diagnostic scan - his consultant needed it before deciding on further treatment. But my friend's insurance policy would only cover 1 scan within a set time-period, and he'd already had that. So they refused to pay initially, until weeks later, after a letter written by his consultant and much to-ing and fro-ing... is this really the type of battle you want when you are suffering a serious disease?

“ Mr Sunak, the NHS isn’t yours to sell. It belongs to the nation. Perhaps you could ask the nation if it wants to privatise it? After all no-one voted for this, it wasn’t on your manifesto was it? If you’re so fond of referendums why not one for the NHS?”

We can continue to fund the NHS - no problem.

It is the political will we need to vote for.

I must be very fortunate to be very grateful for the NHS at the moment. I cannot fault to care I have received following a referral by my optician about a likely TIA ( mini stroke). Within two weeks I was seen by a consultant at The Stroke Clinic and the Eye Hospital. I’ve been prescribed various medications to prevent future strokes and had several hospital visits to rule out other reasons for my sight loss. Only this week I was offered an appointment before Christmas to have a 72 hour heart monitor fitted ( which I refused as my sister is visiting from the US so it’s now booked for the beginning of January) and I had an MRI scan of my head to again look at blood clots and eye problems.

My sister who is visiting from the US is in awe of the care from the NHS and is aware of how much this would have cost her in the US with the various excesses she would pay on top of her insurance for the different procedures I have had.

I just hope that we can continue to fund the NHS so that it can provide this excellent care for years to come.

When will people realise that privatisation means a proportion of the profits go to shareholders? Just look at the water companies to see privatisation in action.

perhaps we should ask them how it’s done
Perhaps tgey have a more joined up system than us.
Some weeks ago I had an ECG at my surgery.
Sent to hospital ( immediately afterwards) for blood test.
While at hospital got phone call from Dr to go and have another ECG.
When I asked the nurse why she couldn’t look at the ECG I’d had at my surgery 2hrs before she said we haven’t got the technology ? It’s the 21st century !!!!

^ It's been voiced on here - government by consensus doesn't get things "done". And we're obsessed with getting things "done" - however badly - it seems. God only knows how all the other countries manage to get things done (yet they do) - with all those broad range of opinions, carefully looking at things from different angles that might reflect the view of the people they represent - perish the thought, eh!^

Ironic that such views are held in the face of a government that quite spectacularly hasn't got things done...

(We'll leave to one side their fascist proposed legislation for the moment..)

MaizieD

Here you are, Dickens

data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

... thanks for the link - I've actually got their homepage stored on my 'favourites' bar, but didn't look at it.

Yes, I do think so - I do think that getting Brexit "done" was not necessarily the only consideration - although for a swathe of people it obviously was. And I don't believe everyone is enamoured of our NHS. I've heard a considerable number of individuals say that it needs 're-structuring' (or words to that effect) and, on closer examination, they've said that it should be privatised to "run efficiently" or to be "managed properly". These conversations date back prior to Brexit... to the early days of Cameron's "no top-down reorganisation" when the subject became a hot potato again.

And then there were the "anyone-but-Corbyn" voters... so although anyone who wanted to Quit would've probably voted for Johnson, I really think it was a mixed bag.

I thought most people were aware that the Tories are not enthralled with the NHS, including Brexiters - but they voted for them just the same.

... and yes, I'm well aware it wasn't a majority of voters - hence my comment about FPTP. But that also seems to be what people want, too. It's been voiced on here - government by consensus doesn't get things "done". And we're obsessed with getting things "done" - however badly - it seems. God only knows how all the other countries manage to get things done (yet they do) - with all those broad range of opinions, carefully looking at things from different angles that might reflect the view of the people they represent - perish the thought, eh!

Yes. But Tory ideology is 'small State'. A big bar to such an investment. And their resounding victory at the election implies that this is what people agree with - even those who would benefit personally from such an investment.

Do you think so? That people who voted tory in the 2019 GE agree with reducing investment in the NHS?

I thought it was to 'get Brexit done', with no other considerations..

(and it wasn't a majority of voters...)

Here you are, Dickens

data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

MaizieD

Dickens

PS... Norway spends more per person on healthcare than any other country in the world.

Not according to the OECD. It comes third, after the US and Switzerland.

People are slightly missing my point. What I am trying to point out is that all these lauded health services spend more per head (how ever it is financed) than does the UK.

... I will look that up - there are a number of sources for the information, but I forgot to look at the OECD!

Does it not occur to people that we could enjoy deluxe services if the government were prepared to invest the money to pay for them?

Yes. But Tory ideology is 'small State'. A big bar to such an investment. And their resounding victory at the election implies that this is what people agree with - even those who would benefit personally from such an investment.

Margaret Thatcher paved the way, and it's been followed since.

Looking (again) at Norway - a very healthy Capitalist democracy - the government invested their oil wealth and now have a huge (£trillions) sovereign wealth fund, which outweighs its public debt - it doesn't need to borrow money. These reserves have been set aside to benefit the future economy - and its citizens... to invest in new technologies (for when the oil 'runs out'); and a portion has been set aside to fund social, health and welfare programmes.

We could have done the same - but the Thatcher government chose not to... and I'm not going to give a litany of where the money went, because everyone on here probably knows. It got spent. We did not invest. And under a Tory government, we will not invest in public services.

Under our FPTP system, we got the government the people wanted. Unless we change that, we will forever be voting for Tweedledum or Tweedledee... for eternity.

We live in France. We pay just over 200 euros per month for our health care top up. If we need blood tests we turn up at our local health centre in the morning. The results arrive by email the next day. Most towns have xray facilities where you can also get a mammogram.

There are plenty of physios and osteos should you need one and you can make an appointment on line.

I've recently seen a chest consultant at a teaching hospital and he has diagnosed a new treatment for my asthma which involves regular injections. I picked up the first month's supply and the cost is over 1300 euros per month. Luckily he has designated me as having a long term illness so our health insurance doesn't have to pay for it.

So, the system costs us money but it is generally very efficient.

The Tories have never liked the NHS. Apparently Thatcher wanted to get rid of it but was talked out of it by her advisers on the grounds that the public wouldn't stand for it.

People have saying how good the American system is. If you can afford it. A friend in America fell down some concrete stairs and was severely injured. His treatment is costing thousands. Luckily his wife works for one of the large insurance providers and he is covered by her policy. He would not be able to afford to pay for his health costs himself.

When we were in New York a few years ago, staying in Harlem, we were surprised at the number of invalids that we saw and concluded that their conditions had worsened because they couldn't afford to pay for treatment.

Yes we gets much more bang for our bucks in the U.K.

Why lose it? where is the sense?

Dickens

PS... Norway spends more per person on healthcare than any other country in the world.

Not according to the OECD. It comes third, after the US and Switzerland.

People are slightly missing my point. What I am trying to point out is that all these lauded health services spend more per head (how ever it is financed) than does the UK.

PS... Norway spends more per person on healthcare than any other country in the world.

MaizieD

^My family in Germany get much quicker care, results of scans and blood results,usually given to patient to take direct to GP, Consultant usually seen within a week.Surgery quicker, varicose veins stripped without having to jump through hoops to get them done, and yes they can be debilitating, can lead to massive ciculatory problems. State and paid for health insurance. Those that can’t pay get state help. So no one goes without. We will have to do something.^

Does it not occur to people that we could enjoy deluxe services if the government were prepared to invest the money to pay for them?

According to OECD figures the UK is 14th in the world for total spending on health services (from whatever source of financing) at $5,267 per capita pa. The US is no. 1 at $10,948. And most of the health services being praised on this thread are well above the UK in spending per capita. Not surprising then that they can offer a better level of service (though the US is plainly an anomaly with lower life expectancy and many US citizens unable to afford the cost of health care).

The surprising anomaly is Spain, which spends only $3,630 per capita. Perhaps we should ask them how it's done

A lot of Spanish have Private health insurance and use private hospitals. It can often be quite a journey to access a state funded hospital so those who can pay to have access to one that is close.

This means the demand for State funded health care is much lower than a country where the majority use the State funded system.

Also less is spent on nursing both in hospital and at home where the family is expected to carry out tasks like feedin, hygiene etc. Nursing is mostly medical care.

Kim19

Gagajo, this person certainly wants the NHS but only in a vastly reformed condition from start to finish. I'd be interested to know from those who've used other Countries' services in either length of depth which they preferred and why, please. I have an American friend who can't wait to get home on her annual trip to get her medical check up. She thinks we're hopelessly incompetent here. As for me, I've had excellent help and some disasters but have never used other than NHS so have no comparisons.

I worked in Norway for 12 years.

Norway has a similar model to ours, but it is not entirely free - there are some upfront payments - for GP and specialist / consultant appointments.

Everyone pays National Insurance. The point at which treatment becomes 'free' is when you are hospitalised.

When I lived there, everyone paid around just under £10 for a GP appointment and anywhere between £15 and £27 for an appointment with a specialist or consultant.

However, these costs are capped per year. When I was there, the cap was around £100 including all payments. Once that sum is reached, you don't pay anything further. This is so that those with difficult complex health problems and the chronically sick are not penalised. Children under 16 and pregnant women are excluded from these costs.

The hospital I attended was a university teaching hospital, run to a high standard, and, I might add, excellent catering facilities.

The thing is - Norway is a high-wage economy. Which people forget when they talk about the high-tax people pay. Norwegians can afford these up front payments.

My partner and I retired back to the UK considerably wealthier than when we left - in spite of him paying 34% tax and me 27%!

The German system does not have the GP gatekeepers - you take a child with a problem to a paediatrician, if you have a gynaecological issue you would make an appointment to see a gynaecologist and so on, so quicker and more efficient. It’s crazy here that a hospital,consultant can’t refer you to a different speciality - you have to go back to your GP, and we all know how accessible GPs are, so maybe being able to refer yourself to a speciality would save a whole layer of admin. I agree paying a nominal amount for medical appointments would cut out some time wasters, there would still be exemptions for those on benefits.

Happiness is a difficult thing to measure, but one initiative at the United Nations has been trying to figure it out. Every year, the U.N. Sustainable Development Solutions Network publishes its World Happiness Report—a study that examines the connections between happiness and development, all while encouraging policymakers to place more of an emphasis on the former. Around 1,000 people in each U.N. member state rate their quality of life on a scale from 0 to 10, while researchers cull data from six areas: GDP per capita, life expectancy, social support, trust and corruption, perceived freedom to make life decisions, and generosity. The World Happiness Report 2021 was released recently, and while the results follow previous trends (every Nordic country made the cut)—the list is a little more interesting amid the COVID-19 pandemic. The report paid special attention to evaluate how different governments have dealt with the pandemic, and how trust in said governments is directly related to overall happiness.

Even though the top 10 list has remained virtually the same year over year, we still recommend checking out the full list below. Who knows? Maybe reading about these places will put a smile on your face today.

www.cntraveler.com/gallery/the-10-happiest-countries-in-the-world

Can you guess?

Hint - the happiest countries are NOT those with the lowest taxes

My family in Germany get much quicker care, results of scans and blood results,usually given to patient to take direct to GP, Consultant usually seen within a week.Surgery quicker, varicose veins stripped without having to jump through hoops to get them done, and yes they can be debilitating, can lead to massive ciculatory problems. State and paid for health insurance. Those that can’t pay get state help. So no one goes without. We will have to do something.

Does it not occur to people that we could enjoy deluxe services if the government were prepared to invest the money to pay for them?

According to OECD figures the UK is 14th in the world for total spending on health services (from whatever source of financing) at $5,267 per capita pa. The US is no. 1 at $10,948. And most of the health services being praised on this thread are well above the UK in spending per capita. Not surprising then that they can offer a better level of service (though the US is plainly an anomaly with lower life expectancy and many US citizens unable to afford the cost of health care).

The surprising anomaly is Spain, which spends only $3,630 per capita. Perhaps we should ask them how it's done

There is an awful lot of denial on GN.

I don’t know how anyone could forgive the Tories for doing this to our NHS.

NHS privatisation has been going on by stealth for years. First to go we’re the most profitable areas, and bit by bit it’s been sold off.
The rest has been underfunded/understaffed until the point when government can say it’s no longer working and a new system is needed. Enter USA and big business, hungry for profit.

NHS privatisation now trending on Twitter.