Sunak and his quiet trip to USA

W, don't feel at all apathetic but somwhat.... powerless?

the apathy by the U.K. public relating to the NHS is astounding.

Why do you think this, wwm2?

Whitewavemark2 as you have absolutely no idea what discussions took place your OP is at best guesswork or at its worst pure whataboutery.

The world is still firmly in the grip of a pandemic, and quiet frankly I would be more surprised if government officials were not having meetings with other countries health care providers.

It has always been the Tory desire, to sell off the NHS despite their official denials. It drives a lot of their policy. Unfortunately, the pandemic has shown how much we need the NHS. Fortunately for them, the vast majority that voted for them voted for an anti immigration Brexit. Pity we didn't have a crystal ball before the election to foresee the pandemic.

I’ve been waiting for the knives to be thrown at Rishi Sunak, and here’s one ……..
I am sure he is doing his job and will have been “advised” and “briefed” on whatever business he performed in the U.S.

I wish the bl**dy Tory party would remember they represent the people. The people want the NHS.

There is a letter in the Guardian this morning from someone who has suffered a double break to her ankle and whose injury is simply on a list for surgery at King's College, London. It seems to me that the NHS is already at breaking point or beyond.
It's very serious. What can be done? It doesn't help that some Conservatives value shopping for tat above health care for serious conditions. What was that Morrissey MPs quote about healthcare and a socialist state?!

So you first of all decided he was on holiday. Even though you didn’t know anything at all. And you were wrong.

Now you’ve decided to that he went to sell the NHS. Even though you still don’t know anything at all.

I’ve decided he went to buy Disney. Even though I don’t know anything at all?

Isn’t it scandalous that they’re going to spend all that money buying a theme park when it’s so badly needed elsewhere. Not to mention the eco issues.

?

He was keeping out of the way so as not to be associated with the tory sleaze being constantly revealed over the past couple of weeks. He's got a leadership bid firmly in his sights.

Why do you think this, wwm2?

I don't think, baggs that most people realise how absolutely dire the US health 'system' is and I don't think that they believe that any UK government would dare to tamper with the NHS. But the government is being run by free market, small state zealots who've been dying to make money out of the NHS for years... They've been cutting funding in real terms and pushing the notion, accepted by many on these forums, that the UK can't afford the NHS any longer. If covid leads to the failure of the NHS they won't be pointing at themselves when it comes to allocating blame...

Does anyone have the stats to hand that show how many other countries run a free health system similar to ours in the U.K. please?

OUr health service is not free. We all contribute with our taxes.

I have said elsewhere that the weak link in the NHS is the GP service, and that many GPs want to privatise in the way opticians, dentists and vets have done. The very large pay rise and altered working conditions, as allowed by T.Blair, is not enough. This is being led by doctors, not politicians.

As always, many of the comments on here are entirely without factual basis or evidence.

I stand corrected. Thank you.

I hope you are including the Labour Governments of Mr.Blair and Mr.Brown in your post MaizieD they introduced PFI contracts which have in most circumstances been a disaster.

eazybee we have a very close friend who is a recently retired GP, Mr.Blair is to blame for their contracts.

GP’s have always been a separate entity from the NHS which is why they are beginning to sell their practices to pharma/big businesses.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 as you have absolutely no idea what discussions took place your OP is at best guesswork or at its worst pure whataboutery.

The world is still firmly in the grip of a pandemic, and quiet frankly I would be more surprised if government officials were not having meetings with other countries health care providers.

Why on Earth would the U.K. chancellor meet health providers?

No lessons to be learned from the USA over the pandemic I would have thought, and who would be the right person to do so in any case?

The Health minister would be the right government bod.

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 as you have absolutely no idea what discussions took place your OP is at best guesswork or at its worst pure whataboutery.

The world is still firmly in the grip of a pandemic, and quiet frankly I would be more surprised if government officials were not having meetings with other countries health care providers.

Why on Earth would the U.K. chancellor meet health providers?

No lessons to be learned from the USA over the pandemic I would have thought, and who would be the right person to do so in any case?

The Health minister would be the right government bod.

Sorry Whitewavemark2 you have no idea why Mr.Sunak was in the USA, you have no idea who he met or why.

GrannyGravy13

I hope you are including the Labour Governments of Mr.Blair and Mr.Brown in your post MaizieD they introduced PFI contracts which have in most circumstances been a disaster.

We are also still paying over the odds for them
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/12/nhs-hospital-trusts-to-pay-out-further-55bn-under-pfi-scheme

A German friend of mine who has lived and worked in the UK for a long time does not think the NHS compares favourably with the German system. One of her points is that not having to pay "up-front" via national insurance sometimes so that you're aware of the cost makes Brits think lazily about their health.

She also thinks our system is not joined up enough. We both have experience through work that this is so and often for the people who need the joined-upness the most. Whatever bureaucracy we have seems to put barriers in place rather than 'enablement'.

Re the US system, admittedly anecdotally via relations and friends there, the system is actually very good if you can afford good health insurance. That, I agree, is the stumbling block that most people are aware of.

Anyway, countries in Europe with systems more equivalent to ours (i.e. mostly free at the point of contact but financed more diversely) are probably worth looking at for ideas that might improve outcomes in the UK, in my view.

Totally agree Baggs the NHS in 2021 is so far removed from its inception. Medicine, surgery, IVF etc have moved on in leaps and bounds something Mr.Bevan in all probability could not have foreseen.

It will take a brave Government, whoever they are to truly put in place the reforms the NHS is so badly in need of.

GrannyGravy13

I hope you are including the Labour Governments of Mr.Blair and Mr.Brown in your post MaizieD they introduced PFI contracts which have in most circumstances been a disaster.

PFI contracts have nothing to do with clinical care, GG13. That is not what this thread is about.

Anyway, countries in Europe with systems more equivalent to ours (i.e. mostly free at the point of contact but financed more diversely) are probably worth looking at for ideas that might improve outcomes in the UK, in my view.

Sorry, baggs. I don't understand how the way the health care is financed affects outcomes. Can you explain.

At the moment our NHS is being deliberately kept short of money, and has been for the past decade.. There is absolutely no valid economic reason why this should be so.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 as you have absolutely no idea what discussions took place your OP is at best guesswork or at its worst pure whataboutery.

The world is still firmly in the grip of a pandemic, and quiet frankly I would be more surprised if government officials were not having meetings with other countries health care providers.

Why on Earth would the U.K. chancellor meet health providers?

No lessons to be learned from the USA over the pandemic I would have thought, and who would be the right person to do so in any case?

The Health minister would be the right government bod.

Sorry Whitewavemark2 you have no idea why Mr.Sunak was in the USA, you have no idea who he met or why.

I’m afraid I do. Sunak’s office advised the media when asked, as they like me suggested he was away for a jolly, and were told no he is meeting health providers in California.

TillyTrotter

Does anyone have the stats to hand that show how many other countries run a free health system similar to ours in the U.K. please?

Have a look at Canada and most if not all the European countries.

If we are going to sell off the NHS then I think the European model is way and above preferable to the USA model.

“were told he is meeting health providers”

Umm didn’t they actually say tech and business”.