England will have no further Covid restrictions until after the New Year.

The BBC again:

Latest figures showed there were 8,474 people with Covid currently in hospital in England - the highest since March, but well below last winter's peak of more than 34,000. Not all the patients in hospital will have been admitted for Covid - about three in 10, according to the latest data, have the virus but were admitted to hospital for something else.

Now I’m no fan of Boris, but in view of those figures, and the expert advice he’s been given today, I can’t see why he should be shutting us down right now.

pigsmayfly.

I have omicron right now, tested positive again on day 8 and still feel ill. So the theory of going back to work on day 7 may not work for some people. Staff shortages for essential services could be a problem in time

My first thought was will staff be forced into going back to work after 7 days if they’re still feeling ill. One of the worst things you can do after having a virus is to push yourself too hard too soon. ME still exists along with long covid. And viruses can trigger other illnesses, to.

Sadly I think the best way to manage throughout would have been to have some restrictions until we were out of the pandemic. Not allowing mass events, compulsory mask wearing, social
Distancing etc are all simple measures which would not affect life too greatly but would help manage the situation alongside the vaccinations. As with many other countries. The fact that thw UK is so far out on a limb comparable to other countries demonstrates, the risky, political game playing that is happening. The NHS are worried, stressed, exhausted, leaving in droves. I’m not sure that Chris whitty et al
Are particularly optimistic. I think the government has chose to ignore them.

I agree Lady Wee. Mask wearing and social distancing had become a way of life and wasn’t actually difficult to do. And it showed that we cared about other people. Freedom Day just gave people permission to be selfish. imo

Maggiemaybe

The BBC again:

Latest figures showed there were 8,474 people with Covid currently in hospital in England - the highest since March, but well below last winter's peak of more than 34,000. Not all the patients in hospital will have been admitted for Covid - about three in 10, according to the latest data, have the virus but were admitted to hospital for something else.

Now I’m no fan of Boris, but in view of those figures, and the expert advice he’s been given today, I can’t see why he should be shutting us down right now.

So how do you suggest that the spread of infection is limited?

The number of cases is currently at record levels. It looks as though deaths aren't rising at the same rate, but there are still a number of issues.

Firstly, vulnerable people are still dying - maybe some people are prepared to write them off as collateral, but you might feel differently if it were you were at high risk, maybe because you are immuno-suppressed or have underlying health issues which mean that you're at high risk of being severely affected. Nobody has ever promised that vaccinations are 100% effective, so some people are being condemned to stay in their homes without human contact or to to risk death.

Secondly, it's inevitable that some people, including staff, will catch Covid in hospital if the community transmission is rife. It's yet another reason to keep case incidence rates low. Otherwise, it will become impossible to treat people for non-Covid conditions in hospital.

Thirdly, if the virus is allowed a free rein and cases remain high, it's inevitable that there will be further mutations. Nobody knows whether new variants would be more deadly. Scientists can't predict how the virus will mutate and will always be on the back foot regarding vaccinations and treatments. While they're playing catch-up, people will become very ill and will die.

"Shutting down" society is a sign of failure because precautionary measures haven't been taken in time. Mask wearing, social distancing, good ventilation and encouragement to avoid public places, including working from home, need to be enforced.

Urmstongran

So the ‘Keir’ joke went over your head I take it as you’ve just told us her name’s Angela.

She’s as entitled to an opinion, as any of us are.

That said ...
Mr Ferguson, got it wrong again. It takes real skill to be 100% wrong 100% of the time doesn’t it?
?

Professor Ferguson hasn't been 100% wrong 100% of the time, but the gutter press does like its scapegoats. Sadly, some people swallow the myths.

At least Ferguson hasn’t told us it will be over in 12 weeks/over by Christmas etc etc….

Highest number of cases since last February and such a demand for PCRs that there was no availability yesterday -,this indicates we are still in the eye of the virus storm. The NHS is hanging by a thread and staffing levels are at an all time low. Cancellations rife. It may be fine and dandy out in the shires but it’s not great in our urban centres amongst essential workers. This should be just as much a concern as Covid hospital admissions.

I agree LadyWee, I think it's absolute madness to give a free rein to everyone for the sake of someone's creaky position in politics.
A pandemic will always get worse before it gets better and can take up to 3 years before being wiped out. It's virulent !

Why should our NHS be made to suffer yet again, because it will ? So so selfish and totally unfair.

No use crying over spilt milk when we read about deaths in the New Year. I'm not usually a " told you so " person, but this time I hope I'm wrong !

I think England has made the right call at this moment in time.
Hospital admissions are not increasing by huge amount and the death rate has remained stable and decreasing.
Our main problem seems to be the number of people getting infected not because it makes them seriously ill but because it takes them away from essential services. We also have a problem with the unvaccinated
We will see if the restrictions in Scotland and Wales make a great difference I suspect they probably won’t
Things will have to move if Covid becomes less serious as it is with Omicron

Good move by Johnson, for a change. Let’s hope it stays this way.?

The figures I read this morning indicate that the stats are heading in the wrong direction. The evidence of mixing of generations will be demonstrated in 2 weeks time, based on the disease past impact. The government are taking a chance. With people's lives, they are having a gamble. The reason may be that they are too weak to stand up to the people who don't have responsibility but oppose any legal restrictions.

It has been reported that the hospital admissions do not show which patients have been admitted because of Covid against those which have been admitted with something else and just happen to test positive although they have no symptoms

I think Boris has called it right this time. We will have to learn to live with Covid, I think it is up to the individual to take responsibility for their own health and take due precautions. We mustn't shut down the economy again. No more lock downs.

We mustn't shut down the economy again

I wouldn't worry about that, maudi. The economy will shut itself down when a large percentage of the workforce is too ill to go to work. !

growstuff

Maggiemaybe

The BBC again:

Latest figures showed there were 8,474 people with Covid currently in hospital in England - the highest since March, but well below last winter's peak of more than 34,000. Not all the patients in hospital will have been admitted for Covid - about three in 10, according to the latest data, have the virus but were admitted to hospital for something else.

Now I’m no fan of Boris, but in view of those figures, and the expert advice he’s been given today, I can’t see why he should be shutting us down right now.

So how do you suggest that the spread of infection is limited?

The number of cases is currently at record levels. It looks as though deaths aren't rising at the same rate, but there are still a number of issues.

Firstly, vulnerable people are still dying - maybe some people are prepared to write them off as collateral, but you might feel differently if it were you were at high risk, maybe because you are immuno-suppressed or have underlying health issues which mean that you're at high risk of being severely affected. Nobody has ever promised that vaccinations are 100% effective, so some people are being condemned to stay in their homes without human contact or to to risk death.

Secondly, it's inevitable that some people, including staff, will catch Covid in hospital if the community transmission is rife. It's yet another reason to keep case incidence rates low. Otherwise, it will become impossible to treat people for non-Covid conditions in hospital.

Thirdly, if the virus is allowed a free rein and cases remain high, it's inevitable that there will be further mutations. Nobody knows whether new variants would be more deadly. Scientists can't predict how the virus will mutate and will always be on the back foot regarding vaccinations and treatments. While they're playing catch-up, people will become very ill and will die.

"Shutting down" society is a sign of failure because precautionary measures haven't been taken in time. Mask wearing, social distancing, good ventilation and encouragement to avoid public places, including working from home, need to be enforced.

Good post, growstuff ?

It's good to see that some posters retain their sanity... ?

Out of interest those who want more restrictions what would you suggest that would actually make a difference at this time

My suggestions are bringing back table service in pubs and bars and also in nightclubs, limiting the numbers of people/households who can mix indoors, bringing back social distancing and limiting numbers attending indoor events. None of that 'shuts down society'.

Bringing back table service and social distancing stops pubs running at a profit
Limiting the households who can meet indoors will this really make a difference and will people comply
Nightclubs already have Covid passes

We can’t have everything. Packed pubs with no social distancing or masks may be great for profit but those are ideal conditions for spreading covid.
I’m not convinced that covid passes are properly checked and we know there’s no proof that the pass is genuine or belongs to the person showing it.
It may be difficult to limit household mixing but it was one of the lockdown measures and as with everything there will be those who comply and those who don’t. But I don’t believe England has done the right thing and that Scotland, Wales and NI have all got it wrong.
We simply cannot afford to have huge numbers of people not working, with knock on effects on the NHS, schools and other essential services - not to mention the prospect of giving the virus ideal conditions to mutate further.

rosie1959

Bringing back table service and social distancing stops pubs running at a profit
Limiting the households who can meet indoors will this really make a difference and will people comply
Nightclubs already have Covid passes

So it’s all about making a profit is it?

No concern for the vulnerable in society and the NHS being overwhelmed, resulting in non-COVID treatment being cancelled and NHS staff exhausted .

I totally agree with GSM that table service in restaurants and pubs should have been reintroduced, and indoor mixing limited. Many have overlooked social distancing completely.

And I also agree, MayBee70, that since Freedom day it’s given permission for many to be selfish.

Local pub has offered table service, including ordering drinks and food. Most people mask wearing. Most people not adhering to social distancing. Unfortunately the British population would not take kindly to the strict policing of Covid regulations, as say in Germany, where you can’t go in an out of shops without showing your vaccination status, or being checked on entry to shopping centres and given a wrist band, different colour for each day. Shops/ hospitality in the U.K. don’t seem to think it is their job to help protect their customers , ie with security making sure people adhere to mask wearing etc. We have nothing w ritten into law so we are on a hiding to nothing. Most people with common sense will adhere to trying to protect themselves and others. The rest will carry on as if nothing matters but their own self importance.

Just pointing out the drawbacks Juicywords if you happen to be a pub owner profit is necessary
At this moment in time the NHS is not overwhelmed and many do not think it will be
Social distancing was dropped back in July although I still find most adhere to it when possible
People are not in the main being selfish but after two vaccinations a booster and the positive news that Omicron is much less severe there has to be balance

Oldbat1

We haven’t socialised at all nor have we seen any family over the Christmas. Sil tested + for Covid even though fully vaccinated. I am very concerned for the nhs and staffing issues. Time will tell but it doesn’t bode well.

We are the same but had decided on it because of things in previous years preCovid which made it easier.
Who knows where the figures will go after all the Christmas mixing, Hospital staff are going down like flies, it is bound to affect admissions.
Hospitality is bound to be hit as well, their staff are just as much at risk as the people who visit the pubs and hotels. In fact, more as they mix with more people.
We can only hope things will get better in the New Year and do our bit to help it.
We have people we know who were double vaced and boosted and still got it.

…some people are being condemned to stay in their homes without human contact or to risk death….

Rather extreme example as usual, what’s wrong with a middle way? Go out, wear a mask, sanitise, avoid crowds, lateral test, mix with a limited number of tested people ie family. We did this over Christmas, no social engagements outside of family, lateral flows, mixed with family. Lovely two days, everyone safe.