Emmanuel Macron intends to ‘piss off’ the unvaccinated.

yes

If restrictions cause more people to get the vaccine, surely that is a good thing.

I think it depends what you are measuring SueDonim. As I said before, the Pass Sanitaire / Vaccinal may not have inhibited the spread of Covid (certainly not at the moment), but its introduction did persuade people to get vaccinated, with millions booking appointments immediately after the announcements and saying that they didn't like vaccinations, but they liked bars and restaurants more.
Mask wearing has been compulsory in schools for most of the pandemic and though infections have still spread, French children have had more time in school than anywhere else in Europe, since the start of the pandemic. It probably made a difference.
What works in one country might or might not work in another. I don't think you can generalise.

The thing is people make absolutely ridiculous decisions about their health all the time. They drink too much, eat too much, smoke and so on. My mum ignored a breast lump for some time until my dad frog marched her to the doctors, thankfully she was treated with nothing but care and compassion by her GP.

That’s the nub of it, I suppose, Alegrias - asking if any given restriction actually works? Maybe if restricting non-vaxxed people’s movements resulted in a fall of, say, 90% in infection rates it could be justified. If there’s no clear evidence it affects rates, then it does seem authoritarian.

Having said which, my dd and her fellow medics’ tolerance for anti-vaxxers is now about zero. They’re seeing people who’ve refused the vaccine but come to A&E with sniffles because they’re scared they’ve got Covid. ?‍♀️

maddyone

I hope you don’t test positive rosie. I’ve said it before on Gransnet, but because I was so ill last year with Covid I’m quite afraid of catching it again. I know in my head that I probably wouldn’t be that ill again, but I know as a fact that unfortunately some people are that ill despite having all their vaccines. Before Omicron I was quite confident, especially during the summer, but Omicron has shot that confidence I’m afraid. I’m just hoping to avoid it until the summer when things should hopefully calm down.

Still negative so far but will test each day for 7 days
I do feel Omicron due to various reports is far less scary if that’s the right word
Unlike you I have no experience of Covid that would make you quite naturally more aware

I hope you don’t test positive rosie. I’ve said it before on Gransnet, but because I was so ill last year with Covid I’m quite afraid of catching it again. I know in my head that I probably wouldn’t be that ill again, but I know as a fact that unfortunately some people are that ill despite having all their vaccines. Before Omicron I was quite confident, especially during the summer, but Omicron has shot that confidence I’m afraid. I’m just hoping to avoid it until the summer when things should hopefully calm down.

For me Maddyone vaccination has altered my conception of Covid in the last couple of weeks I have found out that I have been in contact with people who had tested positive. If this had happened last year before vaccination I would have been very worried whereas now I am not particularly concerned but just test daily after contact
If I do test positive I do trust the vaccine to do it’s job yes I may be unwell but not end up in hospital which I can live with. The two people at either end of the age spectrum have not been affected to any extent
I have had a few friends test positive recently and thanks to their vaccination have not been more unwell than with a cold.

SueDonim TBH I don't know if they should lift restrictions or not. I tend to behave more cautiously than the restrictions allow. It will be interesting to see if the more stringent restrictions we have in Scotland/Wales/NI lead to better outcomes than England's approach.

I'm not against restrictions, I'm against restrictions on the unvaccinated, if they are brought in just because they look good and would be popular with the vaccinated, and not because they actually make a measurable impact.

Doesn’t show much confidence in the vaccine.

Unfortunately we’re regularly told, and we know to be true, that a three times vaccinated person can catch the virus, and if they do, they can transmit the virus to others. The % who catch the virus when fully vaccinated is the point, and unfortunately with Omicron, that % seems to be high, judging by the apparent numbers of vaccinated people who have become infected. I don’t know any numbers, maybe someone else does, but the perception of vaccinated people getting infected seems to be high from general observation. So I guess that’s why many people don’t feel fully confident with their vaccines.

Alegrias given your posts, do you think it’s time to lift restrictions on socialising now, such as 1m distancing, size of household/gatherings and so on? (I’ve only had time to skim read as am v busy at the moment so I may have misconstrued what you’re saying!)

I’d like to know what ‘being in hospital’ with COVID means. My medic DD’s latest experience is that many CV patients are only there briefly, perhaps overnight and not there for the prolonged stays of last winter and 2020. That’s not to say there aren’t very sick people in hospital, too, but there might be a greater turnover now.

We are trying to encourage people to get vacinnated yet in some instances saying I can't do x y or z even though I have has every vacination
Doesn't show much confidence in the vacinne?
Not sure that makes sense

I wouldn't want to go off socialising at the moment, certainly.

I agree Calistemon. What don’t they understand about looking out for each other. Poor nurses and doctors and staff on their knees, what do they care.

I think that people becoming annoyed that those who do not wish to be vaccinated restrict the freedoms of others to enjoy a social life is an oxymoron.

And as far as I remember transmission rate is higher for those who received AZ than Pfizer so if its transmission rate that people are worried about (rather than people not doing what they want them to) we need to be looking at that too.

I don't know the statistics therefore the probabilities.

You could, of course, be late that morning and miss the bus.

That's not a joke btw.

But surely they would be much more likely to be infectious if they are unvaccinated?

Sorry Cal, I'm here so I'll comment.

Got any stats on that humptydumpty? How much more likely it is? You happy to abandon all the freedoms that we have in this country because somebody standing next to you might be ill and might make you ill as well? When you are vaccinated and more likely to be immune and much more likely not to get a serious illness?

We really have lost the plot.

Calistemon, surely we're talking probabilities here?

You could stand next to someone in a queue, sit near them on a bus and they may seem perfectly healthy but could be carrying Covid, vaccinated or unvaccinated.

But surely they would be much more likely to be infectious if they are unvaccinated?

Oh, sorry, no, you will have built up a good immunity now, maddyone!

I was thinking of Keir Starmer, but he's ok, I think, apparently symptomless.
(Perhaps it was a false positive last time)

Someone could have recovered from Covid, be triple vaccinated, and catch Covid again.

I know you’re right Calistemon but you’re describing me, and my reaction is oh my God, please just NO!

Kali

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1 good post @ 12.42, I agree.

I agree too.

Evidence based intervention is what we need.

And so far we don't have anywhere near all the evidence.

You could stand next to someone in a queue, sit near them on a bus and they may seem perfectly healthy but could be carrying Covid, vaccinated or unvaccinated.

Someone could have recovered from Covid, be triple vaccinated, and catch Covid again.

Someone could be desperately ill with comorbidities, catch Covid but be symptomless.

maddyone

^And doctors cannot become doctors without having a yellow fever vaccine.^

Are you sure about that Kali? When my daughter was training to be a doctor she was obliged to have the Hepatitis B vaccine, but I’m sure she didn’t need the Yellow Fever vaccine. She had to have the Hep B vaccine just before she did her first rotation in surgery during her training.

Car lagged- yes, Hep B.

I think Yellow Fever is for African countries. I had to have it to visit South Africa decades ago.