When is mis-speaking actually lying to deceive?

Eh?

The Warm Home Discount is worth £140 for the whole winter period. It's an annual payment for a limited group of people.

Single pensioners don't receive £300.

Cold Weather Payments are for a very limited time - usually only one week.

Millions of people on low incomes aren't covered by any of the above schemes.

Well, here you are, lemon, especially for the hard of hearing. This is the Hansard record of PMQs, 5th January 2022.

Just in case people can't be bothered to follow the link and read what he actually said (twice) I'll copy and paste it here:

The right hon. Lady talks about energy. I think the House would agree that she has a lot more energy than the current Leader of the Opposition. I welcome her point, because what the Government are doing is supporting people throughout the pandemic: 2.2 million people supported with the warm home discount, worth £140 per week, which we introduced; pensioners supported with the £300 winter fuel payments;

The right hon. Lady obviously did not listen to my previous answer. Let me remind her that the warm home discount already supports 2.2 million people to the tune of £140 a week. Pensioners are supported with £300 through the winter fuel payment,

I've copied the bit about the winter fuel payment, too, because the £300 only applies to pensioners over the age of 80. A bit of 'not quite' lying...

hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-01-05/debates/F0DD6E66-0813-4A93-814D-B6FAAFDC8A16/Engagements

Hansard has this online
The Prime Minister: The right hon. Lady talks about energy. I think the House would agree that she has a lot more energy than the current Leader of the Opposition. I welcome her point, because what the Government are doing is supporting people throughout the pandemic: 2.2 million people supported with the warm home discount, worth £140 per week, which we introduced; pensioners supported with the £300 winter fuel payments; and there are cold weather payments worth £25 a week for 4 million people up and down the country. That is what we are doing, and that is on top of everything that we are doing to support people on low incomes. We are cutting taxes for …

One interesting thing Johnson said was that Labour is intent on taking us back into the Union. Not true of course, but…

Just shows that Starmer is bang on when he says “Labour will make Brexit work” it is certainly cutting through to Johnson who appears to be finding it impossible to make anything brexit related work..

Even the telegraph is beginning to question his ability.

recenty? recently!

I read an article abut Johnson recenty, can't remember where. But the main thesis was that he is a bulls****er. He doesn't knowingly lie to achieve an aim, he just says the first thing that comes into his head and doesn't really understand that you are supposed to tell the truth about things. He just says what he thinks the person listening to him wants to hear.

So you can't tell when he's lying or telling the truth, and neither can he.

Just what we need from a leader during our biggest challenge for generations.

this links to a bbc article that contains the recording of PMQs

I assume you supported the dreadfully inadequate Jeremy Corbyn Gill?
I do challenge what posters say as there is a lot of lazy assumptions and sometimes sheer rubbish spouted by those who hate the government.
Johnson mumbles, is never on top of details and frequently forgets and gets things wrong and probably lies rather than admit to not knowing answers.That doesn’t mean that he always lies, nor can the OP get away with thinking he was going to walk out (unless it’s clear that he started to walk off.)
There is enough fake news around without us on GN accepting anything at all that is said.
If you want to believe that he was lying rather than mis speaking about the £140 then that’s up to you.

lemongrove

Don’t be personal Lucca

It’s easy to mis hear, and was a possibility, as is the cut to VAT.
I also challenge the ‘he intended to walk out’.
I further challenge ‘knowingly’ giving wrong answers, as I think it quite likely that he either doesn’t know or forgets a lot,
He’s a rather chaotic and eccentric person.
Why everyone has to accept the OP’s thoughts on the matter as absolute gospel is a mystery to me....all things can be challenged.
He isn’t a PM with all answers at his fingertips ( be nice if he was of course) but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is lying either ( only if you want to believe that because it fits with your own agenda.)

Oh for goodness sake Lemon! Give it a rest. I accept that all politicians put a gloss on things, will swerve the conversation into an area which puts them and their party in a better light, I accept that he will not know the answer to every question. but why just bluster, waffle and lie? The fuel inflation problem is very current and I would expect any PM or Minister worth their title to know the facts. Why do you keep supporting this dreadfully inadequate PM?

lemongrove

Yes, I did listen to the link, but as I am half deaf anyway, cannot make it out.Unless a voice is as clear as a bell I never can, and he is anything but.

He was speaking clearly and I can assure you that he said per week.

Anybody with an ounce of common sense, a basic knowledge of the level of benefits and the cost of heating bills would realise that £140 per week couldn't be right.

If he'd have delved a bit further, he would have known that the energy companies have a cap on the number of grants they award and many eligible people couldn't even claim the allowance - but that really would be knowing some details. He would also have known that the eligibility criteria vary between energy companies and are strict. Many people on very low incomes aren't eligible because they don't tick the right boxes.

You can reference what the original poster has posted here, a link to BBC politics twitter page Just scroll down and it links to videos and what he has/hasn't said

Yes, I did listen to the link, but as I am half deaf anyway, cannot make it out.Unless a voice is as clear as a bell I never can, and he is anything but.

and what opportunities are there for people to retrain? retrain doing what exactly?

MaizieD

JaneJudge

did you watch politics live in the afternoon? I don't know who the bloke was (MP or otherwise) but he said the solution is people take on a second job or they work longer hours or retrain in another field!

The solution to what, JJ?

Of course, if it were a tory MP who said it he probably thinks that extraordinarily well paid second jobs are two a penny for MPs and are easy to fit in because you get paid squillions for a few hours work per month.

Sorry Maizie, I realised afterwards I hadn't said to what! to rising fuel bills and cost of living.

I don't want to work more hours. I work part time in a physically demanding job, which is 6 hours every weekday and I think on top of my care responsibilities (which I don't get paid for) it's enough and I am sure lots of other people feel the same. Maybe it is different if you have a sit down job, I don't know

lemongrove

Don’t be personal Lucca

It’s easy to mis hear, and was a possibility, as is the cut to VAT.
I also challenge the ‘he intended to walk out’.
I further challenge ‘knowingly’ giving wrong answers, as I think it quite likely that he either doesn’t know or forgets a lot,
He’s a rather chaotic and eccentric person.
Why everyone has to accept the OP’s thoughts on the matter as absolute gospel is a mystery to me....all things can be challenged.
He isn’t a PM with all answers at his fingertips ( be nice if he was of course) but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is lying either ( only if you want to believe that because it fits with your own agenda.)

Did you listen the link I posted?

Johnson wasn't mumbling. He quite clearly said per week.

It is both lies and not knowing what he is talking about.

The problem is that both parties have/have had leaders, with such low moral standards that they have poisoned all political discourse in the country and tainted all politicians regardless of their probity or politcal views.

I think that the problem is much older than you seem to think, MOnica. I have heard the 'All politicians tell lies' for most of my adult life now. So that'll be long before the leaders you are blaming.

Don’t be personal Lucca

It’s easy to mis hear, and was a possibility, as is the cut to VAT.
I also challenge the ‘he intended to walk out’.
I further challenge ‘knowingly’ giving wrong answers, as I think it quite likely that he either doesn’t know or forgets a lot,
He’s a rather chaotic and eccentric person.
Why everyone has to accept the OP’s thoughts on the matter as absolute gospel is a mystery to me....all things can be challenged.
He isn’t a PM with all answers at his fingertips ( be nice if he was of course) but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is lying either ( only if you want to believe that because it fits with your own agenda.)

JaneJudge

did you watch politics live in the afternoon? I don't know who the bloke was (MP or otherwise) but he said the solution is people take on a second job or they work longer hours or retrain in another field!

The solution to what, JJ?

Of course, if it were a tory MP who said it he probably thinks that extraordinarily well paid second jobs are two a penny for MPs and are easy to fit in because you get paid squillions for a few hours work per month.

MOnica Thank you for your points. While I agree most politicians put a gloss on things, I do believe the PM has a responsibility to stick to the truth - or avoid the topic.
Provable facts should be challenged when incorrect. Down right mistruths are deceiving. Statements on facts like economic inequities (and child poverty) being lower when they are in fact higher, are deliberately, and I would suspect deliberately, misleading.
These low moral standards should not be accepted. We should call out these lies when we see them! In this way we can make our MPs realise we care about truth!

You'd have to have two or three jobs to keep up with the cost of living now. How some folk manage I don't know !

Give Angela Rayner a chance to speak up for those who are less fortunate , as the others seem to be on a different wave-length.

WWM - that's the problem! And I did say I often don't believe politicians, not that I never do.

So, to choose who to vote for I look at their track record, their response to constituents, what they've done for the local area etc., not what they say on television.

sorry my post was relating to fuel bills
You can check what he says in PMQs on the politics live twitter page

Let’s face it, Mr Johnson has not mastered his brief. To be a successful PM he needs to actually know the details of the policies he implements. He is out of his comfort zone in situations where a display of his considerable wit isn’t met with a hearty chuckle. He is not the man for the job and it shows.