When is mis-speaking actually lying to deceive?

The Telegraph is certainly wobbling.

I notice that Jacob Rees-Mogg is disagreeing publicly with Johnson. He is among those saying that the increase in National Insurance should be delayed for a while.

Could this be the wedge that starts the movement to oust him?

Perhaps if he didn’t spend every day wandering round and elbow bumping in factories, shops, hospitals and schools anywhere but in his office, he might have the chance to actually look at his papers and listen to his advisers, but it seems to me they prefer to get him out if the way because of all his gaffes. Maybe they are right because he really is a hopeless case and a shockingly ill informed person, an embarrassment to all of us.

GrannyGear

In reply to MaizieD, fortunately our electoral system allows us to choose our local MP and not our PM.

Yes, but local MPs are politicians, too. If they all lie, how can you make a judgement?

Let's not forget that local MPs become part of the national government if they belong to the majority party and could be aspirants to office in that government. So, if you think they all tell lies how do you know that they might be OK?

Is there some magical point at which they stop being honest and conscientious and become liars?

Some MPs may well be good constituency MPs but they will still vote for harmful legislation in parliament because they are obliged to by way of the whipping system (and their desire to keep their party in power)

Could you explain why?

BTW the First Past the Post does not allow most people from choosing local MP. I have voted every single time since the 70s- and my vote has gone straight in the bin!

In reply to MaizieD, fortunately our electoral system allows us to choose our local MP and not our PM.

GrannyGear

He's a politician, surely you don't believe what he says!

I do hope you don't vote in elections. because if you believe that how on earth can you make a decision on something that affects how the country is run?

Johnson hates PMQs because he is useless.

Mis-speak ? Is that a polite way of saying he was lying?
I have noticed that whenever Johnson does not know answers, he either tries to divert attention by waffling and then begin to talk about something totally unrelated , stutters and mutters, or plucks ideas out of thin air that are usually incorrect.
I think that he believes that he can get by with no notes, unfortunately he isn't as good as he thinks he is!
It's also a shame that when he makes mistakes like this that none of his cohorts seem to correct his statements.

He's a politician, surely you don't believe what he says!

its disgusting isn't it? the woman that lied about her health machine gets prison for fraud yet boris lies all the time, take the side of a bus for starters, and nothing happens!!! Unbelievable

Trouble is he ( or his minions) preprepares answers to any questions he might get and so whatever questions he gets gets the same answer usually not to the question asked. Usually something bumbling about vaccinations.

lemongrove

How do you know he stood up with the intention of walking out? The PM has to stand up to answer a question.
Did you mis hear the £140 for Winter as a week, he does mumble a lot.
VAT may yet be cut.

He clearly stood and turned and began to walk towards door, and the Speaker instructed him to sit down. Clear enough, surely.

Chewbacca I think he hates PMQ’s because he can’t concentrate on quick fire questions and either mis reads figures or thinks he knows the answer when he doesn’t.....and gets it wrong.His aides need to make very clear what the figures are, although there are notes in front of him he often seems to make mistakes, I have wondered if he’s dyslexic.
Verbally he is the same, not able ( unless reading a script) to get a clear message across succinctly
David Cameron was the smoothest operator I have ever seen at PMQ’s and Johnson the worst.Mind you, Cameron didn’t end well.

Dinahmo

lemongrove

Yes, I did listen to the link, but as I am half deaf anyway, cannot make it out.Unless a voice is as clear as a bell I never can, and he is anything but.

This suggests that we cannot accept everything that you tell us that you've heard

Glad to know that you find deafness such an amusing subject
Dinahmo
I have been like this since I was about three years old, and can assure you it’s made my life very hard.

I know it was several pages ago but several people misunderstood my post when I said:

On the whole, while most politicians will put a gloss on things, I do not think they are necessarily liars. My lie, may be your fact, merely because you believe it, true or not.

These comments were not a comment on the whoppers Boris Johnson told. I thought my castigation of him in the paras above that quote made my opinion of the Baron Munchausen of British politics clear.

The above quote was a general comment about politics and what people say, as on all sides, one parties 'fact' is another party's 'lie'

I will try to be cleare in future.

Chewbacca

It just shows how ignorant and uninformed he is that he could even think that the Warm Home Discount is paid weekly. I wish to God that it was weekly.

That was my point earlier on the thread. It's just not conceivable.

It just shows how ignorant and uninformed he is that he could even think that the Warm Home Discount is paid weekly. I wish to God that it was weekly.

lemongrove

Yes, I did listen to the link, but as I am half deaf anyway, cannot make it out.Unless a voice is as clear as a bell I never can, and he is anything but.

This suggests that we cannot accept everything that you tell us that you've heard

Dinahmo

lemongrove

How do you know he stood up with the intention of walking out? The PM has to stand up to answer a question.
Did you mis hear the £140 for Winter as a week, he does mumble a lot.
VAT may yet be cut.

It's quite clear although the opinion of some journos is that he had no idea of the amount and plucked a figure out of the air. I think that's being rather generous.

£140 was correct, but it's a one-off annual payment, intended to cover the coldest months of winter, so works out at less than £10 a week.

lemongrove

I assume you supported the dreadfully inadequate Jeremy Corbyn Gill?
I do challenge what posters say as there is a lot of lazy assumptions and sometimes sheer rubbish spouted by those who hate the government.
Johnson mumbles, is never on top of details and frequently forgets and gets things wrong and probably lies rather than admit to not knowing answers.That doesn’t mean that he always lies, nor can the OP get away with thinking he was going to walk out (unless it’s clear that he started to walk off.)
There is enough fake news around without us on GN accepting anything at all that is said.
If you want to believe that he was lying rather than mis speaking about the £140 then that’s up to you.

The PM is given advance notice of the questions so either he didn't do his research (although I assume that he has researchers to do it for him) or he didn't bother to read the notes before PMQs.

Does anybody think that the Tories would allow energy handouts of £140 per week? Using my trust calculator that's £7280 pa.

JaneJudge

did you watch politics live in the afternoon? I don't know who the bloke was (MP or otherwise) but he said the solution is people take on a second job or they work longer hours or retrain in another field!

I only saw the last bit. If you meant the young one with a balding head he also said that he voted for the NIC increase as it was the best of a bad job. He refused to answer Polly Toynbee when she asked a couple of times why income tax hadn't been increased instead.

lemongrove

How do you know he stood up with the intention of walking out? The PM has to stand up to answer a question.
Did you mis hear the £140 for Winter as a week, he does mumble a lot.
VAT may yet be cut.

It's quite clear although the opinion of some journos is that he had no idea of the amount and plucked a figure out of the air. I think that's being rather generous.

Septimia

I don't often believe politicians anyway. It really depends on who is speaking and what the circumstances are.

Me neither Septimia. Granted we are aware of more examples from BJ, which is not good. One reason we are more aware of them is the huge increase in popularity of watching political broadcasts, reading media posts and newspapers. That’s no bad thing, and I hope the interest continues for this and future governments. It might improve things.

lemongrove

*Cvd*....I really think you credit Johnson with too much? as in being deliberate....much more likely that he didn’t read the figures properly as he really is forgetful and chaotic, even his friends say that ruefully!

Yes he such a cute and cuddly person how could anyone think of voting for anyone else, especially one that might know what they are doing.