It's just a cold

Kali2

Do complain to The Times, please.

Does this bear any relation to what you've posted? Answer - no it doesn't.

Copied from The Times.

I could post anything I liked about re wiring a house, it would be utterly meaningless as I have no knowledge whatsoever on the subject, it would be perfectly reasonable for someone to challenge me on my musings based on my lack of actual knowledge.

I thought I posted this earlier, obviously something went wrong?

There is getting the wrong end of a stick and then there is getting the wrong stick altogether.

I hope this allays some of your fears Kali2 the article is very much making assumptions with nothing set in stone, no decision has been made yet and vulnerable sites (Schools, NHS, Care Homes etc) will continue to get LFT kits.

I believe it's forward planning - setting out a system that may be adopted as we adjust our way of life to include Covid in future years.

It doesn't mean it's going to happen next week or even in the next few weeks - it means future strategies will be announced in the next few weeks.
Looking back at what has happened over the last two years, we do need some future strategies in place but will probably need to be flexible too.

Calistemon
I expected something to start happening before Xmas when Boris gave his speech where he said we were not locking down.
It has started.

Kali2

Accepted- this has been reported by many sources as the plan, and heavily denied by Savid (which makes me very suspicious- call it hysterical if you wish). See how it goes.

That’s just what I was thinking. Testing the water.

Leaked to test - probably right.

My daughter is a frontline nurse. She visited me today (stood in the garden) and she looks shattered, but she is very up-beat! She caught Covid off a patient last year and I am so worried about her. Will she catch it again?

I just don't know who to believe anymore!

Three people in my road have it now, having gone throughout the pandemic with no one catching it. My neighbour said she has no idea how she caught it, although she does have family round and goes shopping. We were going to go for a walk with my daughter and her boys last weekend but in the end she decided not to come as we were going to a National Trust property that was quite busy. Lucky for us in that it turned out the younger boy had covid but was totally asymptomatic. It’s everywhere at the moment.

This discussion is very one sided. people are getting all worked up about what might happen, if restrictions are loosened, no one is looking at the other side of the equation. The damage done to the health: mental and physical of people, by lockdowns, the damage done to children's education and well being. 2 years of disru[ted education is oer 15% of a child's time in education. There are the economic effects, the huge cost of servicing the debt that has been accumulated.

Put all that on one side of the scales and then the dangers of loosening restrictions on the other. I suspect we are reaching the point where all the other damage done to people by the restrictions is greater than the dangers of relaxing.

Could not agree more, MOnica

I agree about a one-sided discussion but as I see it, anyone with concerns is being rubbished and told to get on with it.

There are certainly going to be massive changes to come in thinking and behaving from working from home as a norm to the recognition that some children are happier and more successful being home schooled.

It isn't about measuring these things on a set of scales (which we can't possibly estimate until quite some time has passed), it's about taking decisions that are basically moral. Do we consign a million with Long Covid to a life of fatigue and illness (and many of those are people with responsible jobs and a large contribution to society to be made) along with anyone who is clinically vulnerable? The latter are consigned to a life of shielding because, let me emphasise, it's not much fun knowing that your immune system doesn't work properly and being told to get on and enjoy life is just rude and totally lacking in empathy.

Something that is particularly admirable about France is the value of helping and caring for other members of society, something that has fallen by the wayside in this country.

Oh and by the way, for those who think science is set in stone and that it's possible to identify and venerate 'scientific experts'', I'd recommend an article in today's Guardian about the question mark against the entire scientific method because science has advanced and continues to advance
www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jan/09/are-we-witnessing-the-dawn-of-post-theory-science

M0nica

This discussion is very one sided. people are getting all worked up about what might happen, if restrictions are loosened, no one is looking at the other side of the equation. The damage done to the health: mental and physical of people, by lockdowns, the damage done to children's education and well being. 2 years of disru[ted education is oer 15% of a child's time in education. There are the economic effects, the huge cost of servicing the debt that has been accumulated.

Put all that on one side of the scales and then the dangers of loosening restrictions on the other. I suspect we are reaching the point where all the other damage done to people by the restrictions is greater than the dangers of relaxing.

Of course some people have been looking at both sides and trying to find a middle solution. I have said it many times already, that THIS is not the time, but that the time will probably come with the return of good weather, around April. After so many sacrifices, for so long- a couple of months of being careful is not going to make that much difference.

But for those who are vulnerable, and they are not only the 'elderly', it could be an absolute disaster.

As for our GCs- the very last thing we want for them is for schools to have to close again- due to a combo of staff shortages combined with staff being off-sick, surely.

Yes, very one sided, and as said JillyJosie, anyone expressing any concern not only being told to 'get on with it'- but actually insulted and called hysterical.

I doubt anyone thinks science is set in stone. The one thing made abundantly clear by COVID is how much scientists disagree between themselves.

I also do not agree with people who dismiss anything anyone who doesn't have a string of appropriate letters after their name says. Individuals, with no appropriate qualifications in a field, can become experts in one particular aspect of scientific research and become aclaimed for it.

Tha paleontologist, Richard Leake, who died last week had no post 18 qualifications at all, although his parents were aclaimed, and qualifid paleontologists before him.

However, when someone comes from nowhere and claims to have reached great conclusions from the study of scientific literature, we should neither dismiss them nor embrace them untl we know enough about them and their background to assess whether they are competent to undertake the work they have done.

There have always been people who are clinically vulnerable for a variety of reasons, but we have not brough the whole country to a halt to meet their needs in the past.

I am well aware that what I say now sounds brutal, but what is our current population? 65 million? Are we to destroy the economy which sustains all 65 million, deal with a overwhelming growth in mental illness and a higher morbidity in some illnesses and the destruction of the education of so many children's education, because 1 million people have long COVID? isn't it possible that more damage will be done to more people by continuing the current measures of protection?

I am not suggesting thet they should be cut off and thrown to the wolves, there will be things that can be done to help them, but to expect the whole country to come to a halt to meet their needs is unreasonable.

Oh and by the way, for those who think science is set in stone and that it's possible to identify and venerate 'scientific experts'', I'd recommend an article in today's Guardian about the question mark against the entire scientific method because science has advanced and continues to advance
www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jan/09/are-we-witnessing-the-dawn-of-post-theory-science

Hmm...you might want to read that article again Jillyjosie2. Because it pretty much says the opposite of what you think it says.

''There have always been people who are clinically vulnerable for a variety of reasons, but we have not brough the whole country to a halt to meet their needs in the past. '' in which case, why did we bother at all. Was Johnson right at the beginning then? Why did we sacrifice 2 years? And will just continuing to take sensible precautions for another 2 months really make that much difference for the economy? I'd say the fear of having to lock down again and schools closing, and the NHS not just brought to its knees, but unable to function at all- are much much higher risks. Just continue to take sensible care, masks in enclosed public spaces, wash hand, ventilation, work from home when possible - and live as normally as possible within those guidelines- just for a couple of months.

150000 dead- Johnson said he hoped for 20000 if I remember right. The country can just be sensibly careful for another 2 months- and give us all a chance of returning to normal.

Think that one of my daughters summed it up succintly -'that the cure is more dangerous than the disease'. She is an educational psychologist and is having to cope with the increasing numbers of children having serious mental problems caused by what has been happening over the past couple of years. Many of these will be very long-term problems, can be far worse than Long Covid.

I can remember that there were always a good proportion of people who had 'flu and then remained unwell for several weeks/month afterwards.

Three of my year 7 g.children all had covid over christmas. All were unwell (not ill) for a week, all recovered well. Obviously, all were too young (not yet 12 yrs old) to have had the vaccine. Another g.son aged 21 (double vaxxed but not boosted), also went down with it - for six or seven days. All fine now. More worrying was when my EV son-in-law tested positive. He was quite unwell for six days - nearly as bad as Man Flu - now testing negative and starting to feel a lot better.

Is this really what we are closing our schools, and hospital wards, and business' for???

Accepted- this has been reported by many sources as the plan, and heavily denied by Savid (which makes me very suspicious

Savid who, Kali2?

Anyone who is clinically vulnerable can continue with all the
Precautions that they want to, never leave the house if that’s what they feel happy doing, the rest of us do have to get on with life.
As to ‘long Covid’ it’s always been known that a virus infection sometimes causes long term problems ( sometimes, for some people) but they don’t expect society to shutdown.
The hysteria, false news and general doom-mongering by a few posters knows no bounds. And kali2 ....you seem to be leading the charge.

I am sure you know MayBeMaw- a typo. Thanks.

Yes, children have suffered all sorts of issues, and other too. So why not just be careful, sensibly, for another 2 months... Or do you think schools and NHS ward closures will improve the mental health of children?

No lemon, I am not. I am advocating that dropping all safety measures now is too early, and that we need to continue to be careful for a couple of months, until winter is over. And yes, not doing so could have very serious consequences- that is NOT hysteria, just common sense.

We ( here in the UK) are not ‘dropping all safety measures’.

No more testing for those coming from abroad, no compulsion to wear masks or use gel to go into shops, football matches, public transport, etc, and plans (yes not yet 'confirmed' ) to massively reduce access to LFT and reduce isolation to 5 days, etc- indicate that this is happening. Many here on GN have said, more or less, get on with it, come what may, and accused any person saying otherwise that they are hysterical.

Why can't we continue to be careful, and still get on with life, for just a couple of months more.

Franburn
is this really what we are closing our schools, and hospital wards, and business’s for
In a word, yes!!!