So far, 2022 is not a good year to be an entitled white man!

Pammiel. You are completely out of order, it is deeply offensive to call me racist. If you think my opening post is racist I suggest you report me to the moderators and let them decide. Thank you.

TerriBull

To add to Johnson and Prince Andy, white men not having a good year. It seems white working class boys haven't had good years for a long, long time now, as they languish ignored at the bottom of life's heap, a sort of English version of the Indian caste system "untouchables", that's not to suggest of course that other races have a privileged hierarchy because as we all know you have to be white to lord it over your fellow human being.

???

GillT57

Pammiel. You are completely out of order, it is deeply offensive to call me racist. If you think my opening post is racist I suggest you report me to the moderators and let them decide. Thank you.

At no point did I say you were racist. I said your post is racist. And it is. I’ve made my reasons for thinking this over several posts. If, at some point, the moderators think the same thing I’m sure they will delete the thread. I, however, believe in free speech. I don’t agree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it.

Pammie I noticed you left Boris out of your diatribe. Was there a reason for that?

It is not racist to say that Boris, Prince Andrew and Novak Djokovic are white. It’s a statement of fact.

If course it would be silly to pretend that non-white men, or women for that matter, never do anything corrupt, or commit crimes, or try to evade regulations that are there for the common good.
But these particular men were all white, and it’s a simple descriptor, and that’s all.

maddyone

I feel sad that all heterosexual, white, middle class men are lumped together these days. They are not all entitled. They are not all irrelevant. And their opinions are just as valid as anyone else’s opinions. Some are entitled and arrogant, but the vast majority are not.

Am a bit late to this thread but well said maddy absolutely agree. It really infuriates me that all white males are categorised in this way.

Sigh. At no time did I say that all heterosexual white middle class men are entitled or irrelevant. Most of my male friends and family are in this category.

No you didn’t say that but by specifically listing four white men the implication for me was that only white men are entitled. Whereas a sense of entitlement extends across the spectrum. I can think of both men and women (white and non white) who display a sense of entitlement, think they can do what they like regardless and are particularly arrogant.

Perhaps so, but it is privileged white blokes who have famously behaved in an unedifying manner in 2022, which was the point of the OP.

We're only 18 days in!

I know, and look at all the bad behaviour already

Well I think mentioning the colour of someone’s skin in this context is racist,too. Substitute black for white and there would be an uproar. One rule for white people, another for the rest. It’s not right.

Exactly what I said Nanna and Gwneth, couldn’t agree more, see the person.


It is good as I’ve said that we can express our views.

GillT57

Sigh. At no time did I say that all heterosexual white middle class men are entitled or irrelevant. Most of my male friends and family are in this category.

Yeah all my sons do too Gill and I haven't found your post in any way offensive. I wish people would read the link I posted especially surrounding being sensitive

It will be seen as racist if someone posts ( or only talks about ) the wrong doings of a particular type of person - in this case white men.
Was the op up in arms & posting about the Rotherham child sex gangs? Vast majority of offenders Asian men. They thought they were entitled to rape & abuse vulnerable children - & got away with it for years.
Did the op post her disgust at that?

The OP was about entitled, white men. Not humble, black women. Not humble white men.

Entitled white men.

But here come the "all lives matter" brigade.

I read your link Gill. Perfectly clear what you mean.

nanna8 One rule for white people, another for the rest. It’s not right

That’s what white privilege means. Read the link janejudge posted upthread if it’s news to you.

Was exactly is a 'privileged white man'? Or more importantly, what are the people using it meaning? White and rich? If so, then if you are black and rich, you are also privileged?

The language used is the problem. I actually agree that some people have started off the year in a very entitled way. BJ, Djokovic, Prince Andrew, and now it appears Prince Harry too, so the description of these people is not wrong but when the element of race is introduced it becomes problematic. To be honest, it would never have occurred to me to describe these people as white, even though they are white. I think I might have entitled the thread as Some well known people are having a very bad start to the year. Because they are. No need to bring race into it.

janeainsworth

Pammie I noticed you left Boris out of your diatribe. Was there a reason for that?

It is not racist to say that Boris, Prince Andrew and Novak Djokovic are white. It’s a statement of fact.

If course it would be silly to pretend that non-white men, or women for that matter, never do anything corrupt, or commit crimes, or try to evade regulations that are there for the common good.
But these particular men were all white, and it’s a simple descriptor, and that’s all.

Not particularly - when I posted I was thinking more about the controversy surrounding the entitled behaviour of Djokovic in particular and Prince Andrew’s ludicrous attempts to distance himself from the issues surrounding his association with Epstein.

I do consider the OP title to be racist - it’s OK to single out white men for this purpose, but had the post said black instead of white there would have been uproar. The behaviour of the people singled out has absolutely nothing to do with race and more to do with the entitled behaviour of the rich and powerful. That was all.

love0c

Was exactly is a 'privileged white man'? Or more importantly, what are the people using it meaning? White and rich? If so, then if you are black and rich, you are also privileged?

I perceive ‘white privilege’ to mean that white people can go about their daily lives without having to worry about how their ethnicity or the colour of their skin will impact them. That’s why I fail to see how the fact that all of the men in the OP’s post are white is relevant. I’m sure someone will be along soon to educate me.

I perceive ‘white privilege’ to mean that white people can go about their daily lives without having to worry about how their ethnicity or the colour of their skin will impact them. That’s why I fail to see how the fact that all of the men in the OP’s post are white is relevant. I’m sure someone will be along soon to educate me.
Exactly.

I do think it's an unfortunate term, as many people think it means 'privilege' in the sense of having a 'silver spoon', when it doesn't. I am on a lot of local history sites, and get so fed up when every time there is a photo of Victorian poverty someone comes along with a 'sarcastic comment about 'white privilege', totally missing the point.

Very good posts Pammie.

I'm well aware of the thrust of Renee Eddo-Lodge's "Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race" In the context of putting a link to an extract from that, I can only think that the insertion of "white" in the heading is a subliminal nod to the culture wars that is prevalent at the moment and then supported by a here "read this" and then maybe you'll understand white privilege" somewhat patronising. There is an ambiguity in the opening title of this thread that could be taken several ways and indeed it has.

Undoubtedly the writer, REL, makes some really salient points in that book and the title itself has a grab the attention effect. but she says "she stopped talking to white people because she can't emotionally exhaust herself trying to get her message across. In her experience they tend to glaze over, become bored or simply outraged in indignation" Maybe in making her case she lays black slavery firmly on the shoulders of all white people, ignoring the fact that most of the working white population at that point in history, were practically enslaved themselves and many just one step away from the workhouse, There was also no mention of the part Black Africans and North Africans played.

We all know that America in particular is divided along the have and the have nots, that doesn't always equate to whites being the haves, some of the poorest people are the white communities in the Appalachians, dirt poor and have been since they settled. On the other hand, not all black people are living a hand to mouth existence. Greyson Perry visited Atlanta in his recent tv programme which is home to a substantial number of black millionaires. That's not to say that black people still get a raw deal particularly at the hands of the police.

I wonder how a book titled "Why I'm no longer talking to the Pakistani community about sexual abuse of white girls" would have been received. I'm not sure it could have even been considered for publication, because the matter was deemed such a hot potato for so long by a police force, constrained by political correctness that they wouldn't even contemplate supporting the victims. In any case, how unfair would that title be to demonise a whole community by placing them between such narrow parameters, after all it was the admirable lawyer a Pakistani man, Nazir Afzal who fought tooth and nail for those young women.

Yes it's a fact that Boris Johnson, Prince Andrew and Djokavic are all white men who have behaved appallingly. Globally though there will be millions of PEOPLE of all races and ethnicities who display reprehensible attitudes to their fellow human being, so with that in mind, picking those three, who all happen to be white just seems a bit random and provocative.

For example, one of the most shocking articles I read recently, was that of the young migrants working on the Qatar Stadium are developing kidney failure due to their working in unbearable heat without breaks or sufficient water, dark skinned men enslaved by other very privileged dark skinned men.

Or we could give a thought to the Chinese leadership, who have gone the full Adolf Hitler in putting 12 million of their citizens in concentration camps.

I think there needs to be more nuanced consideration when attributing negative news stories to one particular ethnicity.

Exactly Doodledog. White privilege is totally about the casual racism that black people may and do encounter in their day to day lives.

Excellent analysis TerriBull.