Russian massing on the Ukrainian border

This makes sense and would show an intention by the Tory party

Keir Starmer
@Keir_Starmer
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18m
To loosen Putin’s grip on Britain, the Tory Party must hand their Russian-linked donations back.

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“If Ukraine is invaded, the shock will echo around the world” If Boris Johnson thinks Russian aggression is a “shock”, it’s because he suppressed Intelligence & Security Committee’s report on Russian interference & refused to act on its recommendations

Johnson on Ukraine on Rayworth’s this morning.

We have learned from experience that we can’t trust or believe anything he says.

Oh for someone with integrity.

mokryna

Is Putin thinking of Russian food shortages in the future, as China is buying up land in Africa and building railways in Tibet for water?
From the web
Ukraine is a top exporter of corn, barley, and rye, but it's the country's wheat that has the biggest impact on food security around the world. In 2020, Ukraine exported roughly 18 million metric tons of wheat out of a total harvest of 24 million metric tons, making it the world's fifth-largest exporter.

Russia is the world's largest wheat exporter, second largest exporter of barley and of many other foodstuffs.

mokryna

Is Putin thinking of Russian food shortages in the future, as China is buying up land in Africa and building railways in Tibet for water?
From the web
Ukraine is a top exporter of corn, barley, and rye, but it's the country's wheat that has the biggest impact on food security around the world. In 2020, Ukraine exported roughly 18 million metric tons of wheat out of a total harvest of 24 million metric tons, making it the world's fifth-largest exporter.

Not so much for feeding it’s own population but Russian control of 18m tons of wheat is going to send global prices to new heights, as has happened to gas

If the numbers of troops available is accurate, around 150000 that is not enough to occupy a country as large as Ukraine. So unless the have large numbers of allied paramilitary within Ukraine the invasion will stall.

In addition the weather is unseasonably warm, usually it is frozen solid by now meaning Tanks and heavy equipment can travel easily. Also the defensive weaponry, anti tank and antiaircraft missiles, provided by US and UK is going to make progress very costly.

Russia may yet invade but the odds are not good for a quick victory, although surrounding Kiev and deposing the government is achievable quickly.

Is Putin thinking of Russian food shortages in the future, as China is buying up land in Africa and building railways in Tibet for water?
From the web
Ukraine is a top exporter of corn, barley, and rye, but it's the country's wheat that has the biggest impact on food security around the world. In 2020, Ukraine exported roughly 18 million metric tons of wheat out of a total harvest of 24 million metric tons, making it the world's fifth-largest exporter.

maddyone

It sounds from the news that Russia is starting to send a few troops in. The SkyNews reporter said it can’t be verified yet.

The BBC stated on the breakfast news that pro-Russian militia in Ukraine are calling for people to sign up and fight with the Russians.

A kindergarten in Ukraine was shelled yesterday, it’s being investigated as to whether it was the Russians or home grown militia.

Governments are pulling out their troops to neighbouring Countries so as not to be in a situation whereby they find themselves in ground combat with Russia.

Worrying, but the West has to send a United message, hopefully the summit in Munich this weekend will achieve this

It sounds from the news that Russia is starting to send a few troops in. The SkyNews reporter said it can’t be verified yet.

Putin has been pulling strings for years.

His aim is to destabilise the West.-

He triumphed in 2016 when he got the UK to vote for brexit and got Trump elected in the USA.

Since then he seems to feel his influence waning.

It is time to attack on another front.

Putin must be loving this, he masses troops on his border, threatening that country and the West. He plays politicians one against the other, as Lammy noted, all the while knowing he has everyone dancing to his evil moves. Yet when the West does exercises in other countries it is seen by Russia as provocation. He’s laughing at the world, along with that other empire, China. Like cat and mouse.

rosie1959

MayBee70

Given that America seem happy to send troops to the Ukraine, why on earth were the so quick to remove their troops from Afghanistan leaving the poor people there to the mercy of the Taliban?

I must admit I haven’t seen anywhere that America is preparing to put US troops into the Ukraine unless I have missed something

I’m out of touch….too busy watching the weather! It seems they’ve moved troops out of Ukraine to other countries. But I still don’t understand why they couldn’t have helped the Afghan people more. They (and we) have let them down so badly.

The whole situation is extremely worrying. There’s been speculation about war starting in the next few days and speculation about the possible use of chemical weapons. It is speculation of course, and the media are known for their ability to paint the worst possible picture. Still worrying though.

MayBee70

Given that America seem happy to send troops to the Ukraine, why on earth were the so quick to remove their troops from Afghanistan leaving the poor people there to the mercy of the Taliban?

I must admit I haven’t seen anywhere that America is preparing to put US troops into the Ukraine unless I have missed something

Given that America seem happy to send troops to the Ukraine, why on earth were the so quick to remove their troops from Afghanistan leaving the poor people there to the mercy of the Taliban?

Putin is certainly flexing his muscles, war seems inevitable. Just what he wants, he has been playing cat and mouse.

Putin had two huge triumphs in 2016 - the Brexit vote, which weakened the EU and helped to de-stabilise the West and the Trump election which installed his disruptive puppet in the White House.

Since then he has struggled to make his mark.

His frustration at his dwindling influence has led to this flexing of military muscles.

Let's just let him save face for now. It is utterly unthinkable to allow a war in Europe in the 21st century which could be the beginning of WW3.

growstuff

The trick with compromises is to make it appear that nobody loses face. The promise that Ukraine won't join NATO (for the time being at least) does that. Putin has lost the moral high ground.

Exactly, it isn’t entirely over of course but the sun is certainly higher in the sky now?

The trick with compromises is to make it appear that nobody loses face. The promise that Ukraine won't join NATO (for the time being at least) does that. Putin has lost the moral high ground.

German chancellor has told Putin, that there is no thought by the west to expand NATO into Ukraine as long as himself and Putin are in power.

He then went on to say “ of course we won’t be in power for ever”

Good diplomacy as Ukraine cannot join NATO - one of the reasons is because it is at war with its Russian separatists. The separatists won’t go away all the time they have Putin’s backing.

Once Putin goes - then who knows.

Win/win

Mr.Putin will be the only winner, if he withdraws he will say that he wound up the west with just a few troop manoeuvres. Makes him look strong at home.

If he invades Ukraine he will say that he has been provoked by the western governments/NATO

He has enjoyed the west fawning over him and sending delegations.

The only way to win with a bully is to stand up to him

growstuff

Kali I don't think Putin is mad. I think he's an intelligent man and a good strategist. He has the upper hand at the moment and he's playing with other leaders. Of course he doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO because foreign troops would then have the right to mobilise on Russia's border. He'll do anything to rattle cages and seem threatening, but I think Tom Tugendhat is right. He wouldn't be able to sustain a full-scale attack on Ukraine and to hold his position. He'll huff and puff, make himself look like the big, hard man and play games with weak leaders. The only one who has any chance is Olaf Scholz. Constitutionally, Germany is forbidden from declaring war, but it can threaten sanctions, especially concerning Nord Stream. The West needs Russia's gas, but Russia also needs its export markets and Germany can control that. Russia also has a bankrupt economy and only survives because it invests abroad. Foreign governments could put a stop to that. Sanctions would certainly be painful for some in the West, but less so than having troops killed in battle. Above all, the West needs to stop sniping at each other. Divisions are playing straight into Putin's hands.

I think you are right- I so hope so. My concern is that the divided West will all try to outdo each other at rattling his cage.

And I totally agree with this ''Above all, the West needs to stop sniping at each other. Divisions are playing straight into Putin's hands.''

Neither is the pseudo 'competition' all trying to out-do each other in talks and negotiations.

And Russian interference into Brexit was not for nothing either.

Maudi

Germany and France can't do anything their gas supplies would be cut off nothing to do with diplomacy more fear. What a situation for them to be in.

And so what and how do you think the recent talks with Germany and France were about then?

GrannyGravy13

This has been put out by U.K. Government

Pleased to see the rhetoric is less belligerent than previously.

Germany and France can't do anything their gas supplies would be cut off nothing to do with diplomacy more fear. What a situation for them to be in.