Russian massing on the Ukrainian border

Kali2

Japan was finished too, but some we itching to use their new weapons and see what would happen. Madmen.

Those new toys have changed and been refined, much more precise, targetted. A new mad man is perhaps desperate to see what can be done.

I hope not.

Am I really the only CND member on GN?

I was CND but switched to a multilateral disarmament group when someone said it was like walking naked into the negotiating room. We were all convinced our phones were being tapped. It’s still beyond me why we can’t all live at peace with each other and put all of our effort into making the world a better place, not just for us but for all the animals and insects and plants and oceans ?

This has been put out by U.K. Government

Of course a way to go yet, but it is hopefully the beginning of the end of the crises.

Good - German and French diplomacy seems to have succeeded.

We can't intervene militarily - we don't have the capacity as a result of funding cuts over past decades and of course there are nuclear weapons to consider. Johnson et al are playing big on the world stage as politicians often do when they are in trouble at home. Energy supplies have changed the game in Europe.

Jaberwok

V1 and V11 could have made all the difference to Germany's fortunes had they been perfected and enhanced earlier on in the War. Had the war not ended when it did who knows what the effect these silent killer's could have made.

Winning a war (and the peace) is about more than having the most effective weapons.

Kali I don't think Putin is mad. I think he's an intelligent man and a good strategist. He has the upper hand at the moment and he's playing with other leaders. Of course he doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO because foreign troops would then have the right to mobilise on Russia's border. He'll do anything to rattle cages and seem threatening, but I think Tom Tugendhat is right. He wouldn't be able to sustain a full-scale attack on Ukraine and to hold his position. He'll huff and puff, make himself look like the big, hard man and play games with weak leaders. The only one who has any chance is Olaf Scholz. Constitutionally, Germany is forbidden from declaring war, but it can threaten sanctions, especially concerning Nord Stream. The West needs Russia's gas, but Russia also needs its export markets and Germany can control that. Russia also has a bankrupt economy and only survives because it invests abroad. Foreign governments could put a stop to that. Sanctions would certainly be painful for some in the West, but less so than having troops killed in battle. Above all, the West needs to stop sniping at each other. Divisions are playing straight into Putin's hands.

Japan was finished too, but some we itching to use their new weapons and see what would happen. Madmen.

Those new toys have changed and been refined, much more precise, targetted. A new mad man is perhaps desperate to see what can be done.

I hope not.

Am I really the only CND member on GN?

V1 and V11 could have made all the difference to Germany's fortunes had they been perfected and enhanced earlier on in the War. Had the war not ended when it did who knows what the effect these silent killer's could have made.

Jaberwok

Yes you're right growstuff,attitudes are very different today, at least in the West, less so in the East, but if push came to real shove, then I guess the bullet would have to be bitten. Lucky the war ended when it did as Germany was certainly on the verge of superior weaponry.

I don't agree. Germany lost WW2 after Stalingrad and by the inter of 1943, ordinary Germans knew they'd lost. Germany was critically low in resources, including food, there's no way it could have hung on, unless there had been some major annexation of land and there was no chance that was going to happen.

MayBee70 and Kali2 Thank you, lets hope all of this comes to nothing and all side return home safely.

Yes you're right growstuff,attitudes are very different today, at least in the West, less so in the East, but if push came to real shove, then I guess the bullet would have to be bitten. Lucky the war ended when it did as Germany was certainly on the verge of superior weaponry.

Kali2

Jaberwok

Of course life is sacrosanct, BUT, should we have given way to Napoleon and allowed him to over run Europe? Given way to the Kaiser and allowed him to over run France attack Russia and eventually us in these Islands or a humiliating peace deal. Last but by no means least Hitler and all a peace deal with him would have entailed? You allow a bully to ride roughshod and they will always come back for more. A dilemma indeed.

Today's military reality just cannot be compared with today's.

Neither Napoleon, nor Kaiser, or Hitler- had nuclear weapons.

I suspect we all value the lives of our armed forces more, too. Nobody in a civilised country would be willing or able to "send its troops over the top".

Yes, I've just watched it and listened very carefully to the words he chose. There's a lot of sabre rattling and nobody wants to lose face.

Jaberwok

Of course life is sacrosanct, BUT, should we have given way to Napoleon and allowed him to over run Europe? Given way to the Kaiser and allowed him to over run France attack Russia and eventually us in these Islands or a humiliating peace deal. Last but by no means least Hitler and all a peace deal with him would have entailed? You allow a bully to ride roughshod and they will always come back for more. A dilemma indeed.

Today's military reality just cannot be compared with today's.

Neither Napoleon, nor Kaiser, or Hitler- had nuclear weapons.

That was for growstuff

There is a video clip on BBC
news. I suggest you watch it. He explains there has been confusion in the reporting and had nothing to do with NATO.

The new catch phrase of today 'the diplomatic clout of semolina'

AGAA4

Growstuff because on BBC news this morning they said they were still aiming to join NATO. So are they or aren't they?

Maybe the ambassador didn't listen to the radio.

Of course life is sacrosanct, BUT, should we have given way to Napoleon and allowed him to over run Europe? Given way to the Kaiser and allowed him to over run France attack Russia and eventually us in these Islands or a humiliating peace deal. Last but by no means least Hitler and all a peace deal with him would have entailed? You allow a bully to ride roughshod and they will always come back for more. A dilemma indeed.

If those waters are disputed that could blur the issue.

Whitewave we agree. Life is sacrosanct. Or should be.
The Guardian is reporting that Russia has said it is ready to fire if foreign ships enter its waters. I believe from yesterday’s news that there are American ships in the area. It’s all very worrying.

If Ukraine give in to bullying by Putin who else will he target?

maddyone

It seems to me that Ukraine is an independent country and if they wish to join NATO then they should be able to do so. It shouldn’t be down to the whims of Putin.
Thank you GranyGravy for telling us what BJ is doing as some posters seem to think he’s doing nothing.

Yes I agree in principle, but I’m not convinced it is worth anyones life if the alternative is war.

It seems to me that Ukraine is an independent country and if they wish to join NATO then they should be able to do so. It shouldn’t be down to the whims of Putin.
Thank you GranyGravy for telling us what BJ is doing as some posters seem to think he’s doing nothing.