Ukraine

Doodledog

It's not a good offer, but opening offers never are. I'm maybe being too optimistic, but at least it's a starting point?

I'm sure that if Ukraine has made an offer, too, it will be equally not to the liking of Russia. But isn't it that you ask for a lot to start with, while having in mind the least that you would accept and working towards that?

Callistemon21

I don't think it's near the starting point so just as well I'm not in a negotiating position.

Oh, it's definitely for the best that I am nowhere near the negotiating table ?.

MaizieD

Doodledog

It's not a good offer, but opening offers never are. I'm maybe being too optimistic, but at least it's a starting point?

I'm sure that if Ukraine has made an offer, too, it will be equally not to the liking of Russia. But isn't it that you ask for a lot to start with, while having in mind the least that you would accept and working towards that?

Yes, that's how I am looking at it. You have to start somewhere.

Doodledog

It's not a good offer, but opening offers never are. I'm maybe being too optimistic, but at least it's a starting point?

Mmm. This is Putin we are talking about.

Doodledog

MaizieD

Doodledog

It's not a good offer, but opening offers never are. I'm maybe being too optimistic, but at least it's a starting point?

I'm sure that if Ukraine has made an offer, too, it will be equally not to the liking of Russia. But isn't it that you ask for a lot to start with, while having in mind the least that you would accept and working towards that?

Yes, that's how I am looking at it. You have to start somewhere.

If I was Ukraine I would be telling them to get out of their county. When did we go back to "might is right"?

There is no chance of Zelensky or any one else in Ukraine accepting those terms, they want Russia out totally and no strings.

Katie59

There is no chance of Zelensky or any one else in Ukraine accepting those terms, they want Russia out totally and no strings.

I'm sure they do, and I don't blame them. But as DaisyAnne said above, this is Putin we're talking about, and he is going to need some sort of concessions to allow him to save face.

Both sides will need to give way on something, I think. That doesn't make 'might right', but it recognises the reality of the situation. If they don't get around the negotiating table even more lives will be lost and things will get even more dangerous.

I should be possible for the lifting of some of the sanctions to be in the negotiations. That is surely part of the point of them.

One of my recurring thoughts is that the suggestion everyone avoids provoking Putin, is so reminiscent of the advice to women living with a domestic abuser. Also with the familiar defence / she provoked me, demasculated me, didn’t cook my food right, she knows I don’t like over cooked steak

I wouldn’t have thought concession over sanctions would be relevant at any ceasefire stage, Russia cannot occupy Ukraine both sides know it. It would take far too many troops and opposition would only get stronger, far smaller countries have been impossible to control under occupation.

Zelensky wants ALL of Ukraine back, no strings he might agree to give Crimea away. Russia has a big problem - Putin.

Russia might not be able to occupy Ukraine, but he can continue to kill a lot of civilians. He's shown no compunction about doing that. How much of this is Ukraine prepared to take?

Iam64

One of my recurring thoughts is that the suggestion everyone avoids provoking Putin, is so reminiscent of the advice to women living with a domestic abuser. Also with the familiar defence / she provoked me, demasculated me, didn’t cook my food right, she knows I don’t like over cooked steak

Mmm - good comparison. However, as I understand it, the most dangerous time for the women (Ukraine) is often when they try to leave. It can end in life changing damage or even death. I think Ukraine would need outside help to escape from their abuser - which they are getting but perhaps the helpers need to think what more they can do to make a safe exit for them. In the domestic abuser story you would want Putin detained, at least while you organised Ukraine's freedom.

If Putin wanted to make Russia more powerful then he has done the exact opposite. He has damaged himself and Russia beyond imagination. Russia will never be forgiven or trusted again for 50 or even 100 years after this.

Evgeny, aged eight, and six-year-old Roman help fill sandbags at the Black Sea Yacht club in Odesa.

Such bravery and resistance shown by so many Ukrainians.

You don’t have to look much further than Ukrainian women’s magazines to understand how drastically life has changed. They now offer advice on how to give birth underground or register a baby in the midst of a war, with instructions to chop off acrylic nails so that you could hold a weapon if you needed to.

Oz Katerji
@OzKaterji
·
42m
Good morning, this is Kyiv calling.

By now, the world is waking up to the horrors Putin is inflicting on the people of Ukraine.

But they have responded to this with determination & defiance, not fear.

They refuse to be broken.

We are still here.

We will remain here.

Iuliia Mendel
@IuliiaMendel
·
12m
CHINA IS READY TO MEDIATE IN UKRAINE, ZHAO REITERATES

In terms of weaponry Russia is not particularly “Powerful”, the combined forces of NATO are much stronger. We can see this today they are really struggling against a neighbour with only small arms and no air power. Their only real threat to others is with Nuclear Weapons they are no match with conventional weapons, in any case, however fearsome battle tanks are they are very vulnerable to one soldier with a missile.

I hope Russia realizes that it cannot win soon because the longer it lasts the stronger Ukraine will get, they have plenty of manpower and NATO can rearm them. There will be a lot of destruction but sometimes you have to stand and fight against the odds, just like Britain did in 1940.

Blair government welcomed Putin here with state coach and reception. Corbyn was protesting against Putin and the war in Chechnya at the time. Corbyn was always against Putin. Peaceful solution

Starmer follows Mandelson

Katie59 I hope Russia realizes that it cannot win soon because the longer it lasts the stronger Ukraine will get, they have plenty of manpower and NATO can rearm them. There will be a lot of destruction but sometimes you have to stand and fight against the odds, just like Britain did in 1940.
We are talking about a madman here, he won't realise Russia cannot win and he is in too deep now. And fighting against him is likely to trigger nuclear war because he won't hesitate to try and defeat his enemies whatever the cost.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I had a look on flightradar last night, lots of trails from us air force and raf planes, round and round south in romania. Son in law ex signals officer tells me the purpose of various planes some have been refuelling, others are AWACS. There is a lot going on in the background to support ukraine. This morning I read that a russian ship had been holed below the waterline near odessa. Result!!

I am most certainly not feeling as pessimistic as I was last week. Ukraine has a very fair chance of getting its country back

Zelensky is talking to our MP’s today by video link to The H of C to stop Russian flyovers. Boris has been against so far.
On another tack these so called humanitarian passage routes are not humanitarian at all with innocent women and children being killed. Idk where any peace talks are going when the gypsy warning “do not trust him gentle maiden” refers to Putin.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/609530

Petition to waive UK visa requirements for Ukrainian refugees.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-74663-9050d202-98f8-425b-b43c-bde2f05a96db.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-726061-b896a24d-d638-443a-935c-41cd1c1cf386.png

Can’t find d the thread about receiving refugees so I’ll put this article here. Shocking….confusion, delays and mean spiritedness.