Julia Hartley-Brewer v Stella Creasy

We know that anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence ( “my aunties friend cousin went back to work the day after birth so why shouldn’t this person etc etc”) Surely this isn’t saying every mother should do a or b, it’s saying there should be some common sense flexibility. Creasy is making a good point. There is no reason why the HoC shouldn’t be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century on this one

Seven pages of discussion and facts and people are still questioning Stella Creasy's highly personal choices and decisions as a mother. Posters still criticising Stella for making a valid point in her role as MP. Posters still parroting JHB insulting, unjustified, put down of 'whinging'.

All against a background of an antiquated system set to promote a system designed to work for men. Women are sometimes womens' worst enemy.

Hopeless.

What would it cost the taxpayer to provide creche facilities in the HoC at all hours, when the MP can perfectly well (and presumably does as she has two children) afford a nanny? Why should I pay for the care of someone else's children when that person has a far higher income than I now do?

It's not about the provision of a creche. It's about a system whereby a 1am vote is considered normal.

What does it cost the taxpayer to have a large proportion of the potential workforce economically inactive if they want to work?

We have to stop pretending, in all these discussions, that the national economy is a zero-sum game.

It's about how that system excludes talented, qualified, passionate people from serving society as MPs purely because they have childcare responsibilities.

Do we want to lose their contribution because we are stuck with a system designed in the last century for men with London clubs and a wife in the country overseeing a nanny?

Germanshepherdsmum

What would it cost the taxpayer to provide creche facilities in the HoC at all hours, when the MP can perfectly well (and presumably does as she has two children) afford a nanny? Why should I pay for the care of someone else's children when that person has a far higher income than I now do?

"You" don't have to "pay" for the care of a high-income earner's child. "We" should be taxed to pay for child care for "all" children.

I appreciate that concentrating on the peculiar working hours of the HoP, people on higher incomes and your need for neatness deflect from the overall issue. However, some of us can remove that staw man from your argument and look at the reality of life, the low birth rate and the lack of equality for women.

It clearly doesn’t exclude them Coastpath because they are paid enough to afford childcare and as I have already said, someone was looking after the other child. In an emergency there will be occasions when voting takes place in the early hours. A great many jobs require working at that sort of time if the need arises. Mine was one of them. You either arrange childcare or take a different job when you have a young family. When women insist on having it all someone always takes a hit. It shouldn’t be their children.

Coastpath

It's not about the provision of a creche. It's about a system whereby a 1am vote is considered normal.

It's not normal

It happens in an emergency.
We can't expect emergencies to keep to normal office hours.

The 1 am vote was about the Policing Bill, just in case anyone thought it was an emergency and had anything to do with Ukraine. It wasn't and it didn't.

Callistemon21

Coastpath

It's not about the provision of a creche. It's about a system whereby a 1am vote is considered normal.

It's not normal

It happens in an emergency.
We can't expect emergencies to keep to normal office hours.

Normal on a Monday is 10pm (7pm Tue- Thur I believe).

It is ridiculous that the vote is at 1am, surely that affects people without babies too

as I have already said, someone was looking after the other child

There was nothing difficult about expressing breast milk and leaving bottles and nappies so that carer could look after the baby too.
I looked after a very tiny DGD (and an older toddler) when DIL was away and DS was ill. DIL expressed and left bottles in the fridge.

Stella Creasy is making a point; it may be a valid one but that is what she was doing as it wasn't strictly necessary to take the baby into work with her.

Using her unique type of very well-paid career with lucrative expenses to make a point about all working mothers isn't the best example we could use.

Petera

Callistemon21

Coastpath

It's not about the provision of a creche. It's about a system whereby a 1am vote is considered normal.

It's not normal

It happens in an emergency.
We can't expect emergencies to keep to normal office hours.

Normal on a Monday is 10pm (7pm Tue- Thur I believe).

The nursery is open until then

Perhaps the nursery should be open 24 hours a day 7 days a week so, when there is a world crisis and MPs are called in to vote, facilities are available in the H of C for children of all MPs.

Yes, I’d love my tax to be increased to fund such a worthy cause.

Germanshepherdsmum

It clearly doesn’t exclude them Coastpath because they are paid enough to afford childcare and as I have already said, someone was looking after the other child. In an emergency there will be occasions when voting takes place in the early hours. A great many jobs require working at that sort of time if the need arises. Mine was one of them. You either arrange childcare or take a different job when you have a young family. When women insist on having it all someone always takes a hit. It shouldn’t be their children.

Children have two parents. This is not a women's problem. It's a family problem. Once a child is weaned there is no reason at all why a man can't take on its care. Saying "Women insist on havng it all, someone always takes a hit" puts the blame entirely on women. Men need to step up.But it is all linked. The H of C operates to a system that suits men. Society operates to a system that suits men. We need to allow child rearing and care the importance it deserves, include men as carers and change the system. Not blame women because they want to do other things besides mother someone.

And precisely how do you think that can be achieved trisher? And what about single mothers, which I was for a while?
Until men can have babies it isn’t going to happen.

Germanshepherdsmum

Yes, I’d love my tax to be increased to fund such a worthy cause.

It is good to agree for once.

MP on maternity leave votes against vile bill designed to limit the people's right to protest, presumably representing her constituents.
Do other women support this stance? Apparently not all women.

trisher

Germanshepherdsmum

It clearly doesn’t exclude them Coastpath because they are paid enough to afford childcare and as I have already said, someone was looking after the other child. In an emergency there will be occasions when voting takes place in the early hours. A great many jobs require working at that sort of time if the need arises. Mine was one of them. You either arrange childcare or take a different job when you have a young family. When women insist on having it all someone always takes a hit. It shouldn’t be their children.

Children have two parents. This is not a women's problem. It's a family problem. Once a child is weaned there is no reason at all why a man can't take on its care. Saying "Women insist on havng it all, someone always takes a hit" puts the blame entirely on women. Men need to step up.But it is all linked. The H of C operates to a system that suits men. Society operates to a system that suits men. We need to allow child rearing and care the importance it deserves, include men as carers and change the system. Not blame women because they want to do other things besides mother someone.

I would extend that and say that childcare is a family and community issue. It may be challenging but other countries have found workable solutions.

The talk about parliament is to discuss an anachronism. It was set up to appeal to schoolboys moving into a "gentleman's" club. More than childcare needs changing.

Germanshepherdsmum

Yes, I’d love my tax to be increased to fund such a worthy cause.

The subsidised bar is probably open!

Chardy

MP on maternity leave votes against vile bill designed to limit the people's right to protest, presumably representing her constituents.
Do other women support this stance? Apparently not all women.

I thought it was stated on this thread that MPs don't get maternity leave?

I can understand the reasoning behind that.
Unless there was a bi-election it would not be democratic.

Coastpath

It's not about the provision of a creche. It's about a system whereby a 1am vote is considered normal.

Decision affecting the country, oh yes let’s keep it 9 til 5. Because it doesn’t suit one person. Emergency debates occur all hours of the day and night, you are aware of this when you take the role on.

Freya5

Coastpath

It's not about the provision of a creche. It's about a system whereby a 1am vote is considered normal.

Decision affecting the country, oh yes let’s keep it 9 til 5. Because it doesn’t suit one person. Emergency debates occur all hours of the day and night, you are aware of this when you take the role on.

It wasn't an emergency debate. It was normal business that ran on till 1am

It doesn't suit many people, but apparently this one is brave enough to speak out. Brave indeed, look at the grief she is getting for raising it.