Gender? Sex? Help me out please.

‘If you imagine trans issues are a real problem in sport why aren’t black womens’ (*trisher*)

What do you mean?
I don’t understand

Mollygo

GrannyGravy13
Trisher always brings race, or Naziism in when she has no coherent response.

I’m sure that she actually hasn’t had a daughter suffer at the hands of a male athlete who wins the race her daughter has trained long and hard for, and had a good chance of winning against other females. Or been traumatised by a man, only to be faced with a man telling her she needs to reframe her trauma.
For some people, like t, personal experience is necessary for understanding.

You may need personal experience to understand trauma I don't. I have no idea what it is like to run a race at Olympic level but then I suspect neither have you.
The question I asked remains unanswered which is worse to compete and lose to a transwoman or to be banned from competing because of a functionof your woman's body
I understand why it hasn't been answered.

This thread did start quite friendly and informative but it's gotten a bit dark and turning into a pile on towards anyone trying to find safe space that includes trans people accross now 3? Threads?

I don't know about anyone else but I'm going to take a break

GrannyGravy13

trisher Perhaps you should start a thread on why some women have higher levels of testosterone than others, because it is definitely got nothing to do with the trans/self ID situation.

No it's an example of how badly run women's sport is. It's an example of the patriachy in action. It's an example of what intersectional feminists realise needs to be got rid of. If you imagine trans issues are a real problem in sport why aren't black women's? "Take it to another thread." That's exactly how patriarchy works. Divide and rule Don't address all inequalities and unite because you might manage to change something. The awful thing is there are now women who really believe they are doing something radical and don't realise how they are being manipulated.
"No one is free until we are all free"

GrannyGravy13
Trisher always brings race, or Naziism in when she has no coherent response.

I’m sure that she actually hasn’t had a daughter suffer at the hands of a male athlete who wins the race her daughter has trained long and hard for, and had a good chance of winning against other females. Or been traumatised by a man, only to be faced with a man telling her she needs to reframe her trauma.
For some people, like t, personal experience is necessary for understanding.

Mollygo

Trisher, some of the stuff you post is the patriarchy but its nothing to do with trans issues, except that you post them in threads concerned with trans.

If some people don't understand that it is the patriarchy and not transpeople that control things what else can I do?
And anyway I'm a confirmed feminist I use every opportunity to promote Smash the Patriachy!! what feminist wouldn't?

trisher Perhaps you should start a thread on why some women have higher levels of testosterone than others, because it is definitely got nothing to do with the trans/self ID situation.

trisher

GrannyGravy13

trisher

GrannyGravy13

Women have fought bloody hard for their safe places, for equal rights for years and years.

Hey Ho along come men, like Lia (new name) the Ivy League male swimmer who couldn’t get into the top or win a race as a man, decided to ID as a woman and since has won every single race against girls/women who have trained for years, been at the top of their sport, what for them now?

If you cannot see that this is the patriarchy regaining control well…

Of course the patriarchy control women's sport but that isn't the fault of transwomen.
Unless you are blaming the contestants for all the restrictive and strange decisions taken. In which case maybe you should blame the white women athletes who objected to Caster Semenya for her being banned.

So you are more than happy for boys/men to self ID in order to compete against women and obviously with their physiological advantages win.

This will destroy womens sport, but hey ho 1% of the population will benefit.

Unbelievable trisher

As for bringing race into the discussion, you usually site anyone bringing up race as an excuse is loosing the argument?

I didn't bring race into it GG13 if you don't understand that black women are outraged about what has happened I suppose that is understandable. But perhaps you need to examine your white privilege. White women objected to Caster Semenya. White men control the patriachy which controls international sport. Women in sport are still subjected to huge personal interference because they are women, but it is black women who are suffering the most. Which is worse competing and being beaten by a transwomen or not being permitted to compete at all because of a natural function of your woman's body?

You really have absolutely no idea have you?

GrannyGravy13

trisher

GrannyGravy13

Women have fought bloody hard for their safe places, for equal rights for years and years.

Hey Ho along come men, like Lia (new name) the Ivy League male swimmer who couldn’t get into the top or win a race as a man, decided to ID as a woman and since has won every single race against girls/women who have trained for years, been at the top of their sport, what for them now?

If you cannot see that this is the patriarchy regaining control well…

Of course the patriarchy control women's sport but that isn't the fault of transwomen.
Unless you are blaming the contestants for all the restrictive and strange decisions taken. In which case maybe you should blame the white women athletes who objected to Caster Semenya for her being banned.

So you are more than happy for boys/men to self ID in order to compete against women and obviously with their physiological advantages win.

This will destroy womens sport, but hey ho 1% of the population will benefit.

Unbelievable trisher

As for bringing race into the discussion, you usually site anyone bringing up race as an excuse is loosing the argument?

I didn't bring race into it GG13 if you don't understand that black women are outraged about what has happened I suppose that is understandable. But perhaps you need to examine your white privilege. White women objected to Caster Semenya. White men control the patriachy which controls international sport. Women in sport are still subjected to huge personal interference because they are women, but it is black women who are suffering the most. Which is worse competing and being beaten by a transwomen or not being permitted to compete at all because of a natural function of your woman's body?

Trisher, some of the stuff you post is the patriarchy but its nothing to do with trans issues, except that you post them in threads concerned with trans.

Galaxy

I dont think women who have been raped or assaulted and want women only spaces are weak.

I don't think anyone has said that. I do wonder though why every woman has to be fearful because a transwoman might be in a public toilet.

trisher

GrannyGravy13

Women have fought bloody hard for their safe places, for equal rights for years and years.

Hey Ho along come men, like Lia (new name) the Ivy League male swimmer who couldn’t get into the top or win a race as a man, decided to ID as a woman and since has won every single race against girls/women who have trained for years, been at the top of their sport, what for them now?

If you cannot see that this is the patriarchy regaining control well…

Of course the patriarchy control women's sport but that isn't the fault of transwomen.
Unless you are blaming the contestants for all the restrictive and strange decisions taken. In which case maybe you should blame the white women athletes who objected to Caster Semenya for her being banned.

So you are more than happy for boys/men to self ID in order to compete against women and obviously with their physiological advantages win.

This will destroy womens sport, but hey ho 1% of the population will benefit.

Unbelievable trisher

As for bringing race into the discussion, you usually site anyone bringing up race as an excuse is loosing the argument?

Three black women athletes from Arica are currently banned from competing unless they medicate their naturally high testosterone levels. Semenya has tried but the drugs gave her awful side effects. For every transwomen there will be a banned black women how is that anything to do with transpeople? It is the patriarchy but its nothing to do with trans issues.

Why can the posters who are supporting trans women not support women in general.

Why can you not understand the difference between a fully transitioned trans women and someone self IDing as a women?

I dont think women who have been raped or assaulted and want women only spaces are weak.

GrannyGravy13

Women have fought bloody hard for their safe places, for equal rights for years and years.

Hey Ho along come men, like Lia (new name) the Ivy League male swimmer who couldn’t get into the top or win a race as a man, decided to ID as a woman and since has won every single race against girls/women who have trained for years, been at the top of their sport, what for them now?

If you cannot see that this is the patriarchy regaining control well…

Of course the patriarchy control women's sport but that isn't the fault of transwomen.
Unless you are blaming the contestants for all the restrictive and strange decisions taken. In which case maybe you should blame the white women athletes who objected to Caster Semenya for her being banned.

It’s just not on GN that women are getting angry with being renamed…

Had your fun, volver?

How superior you sound, mocking those who care about these issues (on both sides of the debate). I’m another who has lost respect, whether you care or not.

Lia Thomas, easy to look up if you want to

Volver thanks for starting this thread it did begin with some interesting posts.
Unfortunately the common perception on these threads is that women are poor weak creatures who can't look after themselves and who will be assaulted by transwomen at every opportunity.
Post anything else and you will be told you hate women.
Where are the strong women who entered men's spaces and reclaimed them, who used the men's loos because they wouldn't queue, who marched and reclaimed the night? I miss them.

Some women have always found it really hard to not prioritise the needs of men. Its part of the patriarchy I suppose.

Women have fought bloody hard for their safe places, for equal rights for years and years.

Hey Ho along come men, like Lia (new name) the Ivy League male swimmer who couldn’t get into the top or win a race as a man, decided to ID as a woman and since has won every single race against girls/women who have trained for years, been at the top of their sport, what for them now?

If you cannot see that this is the patriarchy regaining control well…

Volver thinks we are silly little women makkng a fuss about nothing, women in prisons, people with learning disabilities, women competing in sport. Fuss about nothing.

I expect people to conform to the law volver, whuch says in certain circumstances men can be excluded from certain spaces where women are vulnerable. I also think that men who ignore the consent of women are worrying.

How do expect a woman who doesn't have capacity to do that? Or a woman who has a moderate to severe learning disability? or a woman with a communication disorder?
or a woman who is non verbal?
or a woman with a profound physical disability that uses a talker?

there are loads of examples that could be given even outside of normal too