Ukraine - contd

Garry Kasparov
@Kasparov63
·

Biden said Putin must go. Russian TV said we need our "partner" Trump to come back. Trump asked Putin for help against Biden. Collusion or coordination, you cannot call it a coincidence.

Do you remember seeing at the start of the war Kyiv residents making Molotov cocktails? We were wondering how they'd use them because they would have to get quite close to the Russians. Apparently they throw them at the wheels of Russian supply trucks, the tyres of which will burn, thus disabling the vehicles. Who'd have thought it?

I’m thinking Maisie is closer to what may happen, A campaign of resistance by Ukraine will be very uncomfortable for Russia. They can bomb the cities but the Ukrainians seem a pretty tough bunch willing to fight for the homeland.

GrannyGravy13

Katie59

Moving on from what Biden said and it’s consequences or otherwise.

Russias plan seems to have changed, they seem to be retreating to defensive positions, in many areas, probably to stop heavy losses. NATO has made it clear that heavy weapons are not going to be to provided to Ukraine, so occupied areas cannot be liberated.
There is much more occupied than Crimea or Donbas why would Ukraine agree to a ceasefire which amounts to Russian rule. Resistance and harassment along with sanctions continuing long term must seem as possibility.

Katie59 I listened to a war strategist this morning, sorry I cannot recall his name. Who basically said that intelligence sources intimated that although it looks as if Russia is retreating to a defensive stance, they are in all probability re-grouping, re-equipping and giving time for fresh troops to be deployed.

I think it’s a given that President Putin cannot be trusted to do what is expected

That's what most people seem to think, GG13. But there is a question over where he's going to get his fresh troops from. It appears that Russia has a declining population, not many young people, so fresh Russian troops are likely to be young, barely trained conscripts; useful as cannon fodder but not much else.

It's also been suggested that it's possible that places like Syria & Belarus, which have been cited as a source of fresh troops, may not be too keen to release the manpower they need to keep their own populations subjugated.

OTOH, foreign troops might be even more willing to commit the sort of atrocities which the Russians have already demonstrated they are happy to do...

I just hope that the NATO allies can keep up a good supply of arms to Ukraine, which their well experienced army seems to be able to use effectively.

Oh, and I've also seen that there's a question mark over the battleworthiness of Russian armoury because the sheer scale of corruption in the Russian supply chain has lead to appalling maintenance etc. And that they are hampered in building new armoury because they've become dependent on parts from the West, which aren't being supplied because of sanctions..

Katie59

Moving on from what Biden said and it’s consequences or otherwise.

Russias plan seems to have changed, they seem to be retreating to defensive positions, in many areas, probably to stop heavy losses. NATO has made it clear that heavy weapons are not going to be to provided to Ukraine, so occupied areas cannot be liberated.
There is much more occupied than Crimea or Donbas why would Ukraine agree to a ceasefire which amounts to Russian rule. Resistance and harassment along with sanctions continuing long term must seem as possibility.

Katie59 I listened to a war strategist this morning, sorry I cannot recall his name. Who basically said that intelligence sources intimated that although it looks as if Russia is retreating to a defensive stance, they are in all probability re-grouping, re-equipping and giving time for fresh troops to be deployed.

I think it’s a given that President Putin cannot be trusted to do what is expected

Moving on from what Biden said and it’s consequences or otherwise.

Russias plan seems to have changed, they seem to be retreating to defensive positions, in many areas, probably to stop heavy losses. NATO has made it clear that heavy weapons are not going to be to provided to Ukraine, so occupied areas cannot be liberated.
There is much more occupied than Crimea or Donbas why would Ukraine agree to a ceasefire which amounts to Russian rule. Resistance and harassment along with sanctions continuing long term must seem as possibility.

I accepted that the off the cuff remark was unfortunate, but I did not accept that it was a game changer. It wasn’t and isn’t.

Which is what most people on this thread have said.

But they've said it rather less temperately than Campbell.

Whitewavemark2

I began to think after all the opposition to my stand on Biden’s speech that I had it very wrong, and have as a result read a lot of opinions other than the media of course, and I am so relieved that I am very much not alone in my opinion.

The Rory Stuart/Alastair Campbell podcast sums it up succinctly.

Whew! Nice to know that I’m not losing the plot.

I'm listening to the Stewart/Campbell podcast.

They are saying that it was a good speech but Campbell agreed that the comment about Putin being out of power was ill advised and he shouldn't have said it.

Which is what most people on this thread have said.

No I didn’t. I read as much as I could whilst ignoring media hype. Both those who thought the speech was dreadful through to those who thought it without fault.

I have given it thought and consideration, and have remained more or less of the same opinion, that it was an historical speech with an unfortunate off the cuff remark made by a man who had just witnessed the horror of the suffering of the refugees, his faith and honesty shone through.

I think Biden is an excellent communicator, who apparently is known for these off the cuff, off script remarks. He has done so throughout his 40 years as a politician, so this would have come as no surprise to his staff.

It has made no difference to Putin whatsoever, nor to the course of the war.

You've just been reading stuff to suit your agenda. You find Biden fans and they're singing your song.

I am not anti Biden. He doesn't really concern me until he starts coming out with extremely dangerous words.

So you carry on. You are misguided. But that's fine. Be as misguided as you like and ignore all the words from Heads of State. Ignore the White House itself when it tries to soften Biden's words.

I'm, just hoping he won't be making any more speeches for a very ling time.

Callistemon21

We can agree to differ on anything ?

Absolutely, but I seemed to be one of only a couple of people who thought as I did, so naturally thought I must be very misguided.

To be frank I was willing to come back on to say that I had got it wrong if I had read enough that convinced me so.

We can agree to differ on anything ?

I began to think after all the opposition to my stand on Biden’s speech that I had it very wrong, and have as a result read a lot of opinions other than the media of course, and I am so relieved that I am very much not alone in my opinion.

The Rory Stuart/Alastair Campbell podcast sums it up succinctly.

Whew! Nice to know that I’m not losing the plot.

"This is how a weak and sick person behaves - psychiatrists will be able to explain his behaviour better," Vyacheslav Volodin, chairman of the Duma, Russia's lower house of parliament, said on Saturday. "American citizens should be ashamed of their president."

Oh goodness, the sheer irony in that statement is breathtaking!!

Whitewavemark2
No comment from Oz Katerji ? He was your go to font of knowledge in all things relating to this war.

The people of Russia will only hear parts of Bidens speech that the Kremlin wish them to hear. The bits about the devastation this war is causing Ukraine will be censored, the bits criticising Putin will not. They will form their opinions on that which they hear, and it won't endear them to the West.

This from you, WW2

Wow Biden’s speech is sooooo good.

Had you not heard Biden's last comment?

You can all Amen as much as you like but the world is worrying about Putin's words.

This article from CNN will show you how disturbed the White House, a US Envoy to NATO, Emmanuel Macron, the Ukranian Ambassador to USA and many others.

"This is how a weak and sick person behaves - psychiatrists will be able to explain his behaviour better," Vyacheslav Volodin, chairman of the Duma, Russia's lower house of parliament, said on Saturday. "American citizens should be ashamed of their president."

That's from a Russian lawmaker.

We can all agree that we would like to see Putin leave his post but we have to use words extremely carefully. Especially with Putin. If you really want this to escalate, keep wheeling Biden out.

www.reuters.com/world/europe/reactions-biden-saying-putin-cannot-remain-power-2022-03-27/

Grandmashe43

Whitewave, excellent post, and another Amen.

Yes you are right, it says everything I agree with.

Grandmashe43

Whitewave, excellent post, and another Amen.

Well that excellent post was a cut and paste from CNN, so any praise going should be directed at them.

Here's a comment from Jon Sopel, for comparison.

Whitewave, excellent post, and another Amen.

X post

I am saying very strongly that we can’t afford to become divided.
Well, I do agree with that but our leaders do have to be very careful with their speeches too - they are perfectly aware that they are not dealing with a democratically elected leader of a free country with freedom of the media.

We know that anyone dissenting disappears - I don't know if Navalny has been on hunger strike, if it's a result of the poisoning attack but he looked terrible at his recent trial as if he is being starved and has now been sent to an even stricter penal colony.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60832310

I almost entirely agree with this article, that can be found in the CNN site, and written by Dean Obeidallah - an attorney and Journalist.

“Biden didn't hold back in what will likely be seen as a historic speech Saturday just hours from the Ukrainian border. The president appealed directly to the Russian people, telling them, "I refuse to believe that you welcome the killing of innocent children and grandparents or that you accept hospitals, schools, maternity wards that, for God's sake, are being pummeled with Russian missiles and bombs."

The world has seen the horrors Putin has rained down upon the people of Ukraine simply because they won't bend a knee to this brutal dictator and agree to give up their democracy and self-determination.

The civilian death toll in Ukraine has exceeded 1,100 people -- including nearly 100 children -- according to the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, but it notes the actual figures are likely considerably higher.

Some of the most horrific events include the actions of Putin's forces in the March 16 bombing of Mariupol's Drama Theater -- a shelter for civilians -- killing about 300 people, according to Ukrainian officials.

And as The New York Times documented last week, Russian forces have bombed at least 23 hospitals and other health care infrastructure, 330 schools and 27 cultural buildings as well 900 houses and apartment buildings. The paper also detailed Russian forces have used cluster munitions, which are imprecise and amount to indiscriminate bombings of civilians.

Biden has been right to call Putin a "war criminal" and even a "butcher," as he stated Saturday after visiting Ukrainian refugees in Poland. No one who engages in an unprovoked attack on another nation and then in war crimes should remain in power.

But Putin, the "murderous dictator," as Biden has also described him, engaged in these types of gruesome attacks on civilians in Syria as well, beginning in 2015 when his forces provided military support to keep Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad in power. Putin's forces in Syria -- as in Ukraine now -- bombed hospitals, schools, markets and other civilian targets. Putin's military devastated Syrian cities and in the process slaughtered more than 24,000 civilians, as The Guardian detailed, citing civilian casualty monitor Airwars.

Beyond those apparent war crimes, Putin has been actively working to undermine Western democracies. For example, in France's 2017 presidential election campaign, Russian operatives reportedly spread disinformation in an effort to hurt the candidate they opposed, the moderate Emmanuel Macron, while boosting the far-right candidate, Marine Le Pen.

And of course, in the United States, as the Mueller report documented, "The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion." The report further noted "a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton," explaining "the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome."

Biden on Saturday reiterated a point he has made time and time again since becoming President, namely the world is locked in a contest between democracy and autocracy. During his inaugural address on January 20, 2021 -- just two weeks after the January 6 attack on the Capitol -- he declared, "We have learned again that democracy is precious. Democracy is fragile."

It's why just a month later during his virtual speech at the Munich Security Conference, Biden said, "Democracy doesn't happen by accident. We have to defend it, fight for it, strengthen it, renew it." It also explains why in December his administration organized the Summit for Democracy, which brought together democratic leaders from around the world to tackle the threat of autocratic forces such as Putin.

Near the end of his speech Saturday, Biden returned to this theme as he explained the world is caught in "a battle between democracy and autocracy, between liberty and repression."

In keeping with that point, he slammed Putin's ambitions, declaring "a dictator bent on rebuilding an empire will never erase a people's love for liberty." Instead, Biden promised "a brighter future rooted in democracy and principle, hope and light, of decency and dignity, of freedom and possibilities."

That is when Biden said about Putin, "For God's sake, this man cannot remain in power.”

To that I say amen.