I do wish that these discussions would focus on what is actually being said.
I have not seen anyone say they don't accept trans women. What is being said time and time again is not accepting women's safe spaces being compromised; not accepting unfair competition in sports; not having an event or a day which is for women being taken over by trans activists; not having women subjected too the threat of act if violence for speaking the truth, when we we say that a trans woman is not a woman.
You don't have to accept that trans women are women to be pro trans and saying they are not, does not make someone anti trans.
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What is a woman?
(210 Posts)What is a woman to me?
I feel in modern times women are being reduced to sex categories, ignoring our vast and varied biology. The very biology that for years has allowed women to be stereotyped, seen as weaker and even seen as so great in difference to other women, women were enslaved and sold.
Biology as diverse as a woman's has caused so many non white women pain and fear yet the biology of women is now somehow fixed?
Sojourner Truth "Ain't I a woman?"
Yet we are all women and that must be respected while acknowledging our differences, our separate struggles, our journeys to claiming our womanhood. The discriminations other women have faced that we don't and the discriminations other women have faced that we do because of biological diversity.
Some simply see women as one simple biological fact, men and women. Nothing else.
Some of us see it as a rainbow, A beautiful spectrum of difference and diversity. Men, women, trans, non binary people, all valid.
I wasn't born a woman, I was born a baby, I became a child, on an equal footing with boys, running and jumping and getting dirty in the mud. What was there to tell us apart but the hair and clothes chosen for us by adults?
I wasn't born a woman, society told me I was one when I reached physical maturity. Society told me what to wear, how to act.
Am I a woman? I choose my own hair, my own clothes, my personality and how to express myself in the ways that other women do that I enjoy as an individual.
Can anyone look at me and declare my womanhood undoubtedly? Probably but only because that is what I choose and how I express myself. Is that true of all people? No.
You see everything about who I am as a woman is on the inside. Its in my thoughts, my opinions, my appreciation of beautiful things, the way I would like to look, the clothes I would like to wear, in the things I appreciate about friends and family, the strength I have for my children, the love and the pure determination to be a good mother.
I am a woman on the inside, not the outside. That's how I identify. I can change the outside. I can gain or lose weight, I can wear more or less make up, I can cut my hair or grow it out. I can have my body surgically altered but who I am on the inside remains the same.
I am one woman amongst a world of biologically diverse women, not a single one of us looks exactly the same, we don't all choose to express our gender identity visually at all, yet still identify as women.
It is the same for trans women.
I am a woman and so is she.
That's a bit worrying galaxy but I don't see how we could possibly remove protected rights here and if we allowed that, who would be next?
I think many countries are moving away from affirmation VS in particular with regards to young prople. The interim cass report seems to be saying that even social transition is not a neutral activity and that more data is needed.
Also I do have to ask, if those who are accepting of trans people are losing the arguments and in the minority
Then why are people of all ages still transitioning and legally changing their gender?
Why is the medical community based in science still as a whole saying that the only treatment fro gender dysphoria is transition?
Why do people have the right to use the toilets and changing spaces of the gender they identify with?
Why is the actual government on power, starting with Teresa May actually protecting trans rights if Labour are now the bad guys in the trans front?
I don't think the gender critical or worried women or however people identify is going to grow any more than it already has in the last 6 years honestly.
I think the way forward is to accept people's gender identity, respect their pronouns and focus on safeguarding where it is needed to make all of us feel safe.
I am quite happy with my life thanks. You dont seem that serene though.
There needed to be pro trans threads that accept trans women are women.
I don't regret it
I’m not telling you anything, I’m just suggesting that you’re wasting your life on such things. 
.
Who are you to look for confrontation? 
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Galaxy
Goodness have you nothing better to do than come on a forum and tell people what to discuss.
I think ExperiencedNotOld just needs a hobby.
Germanshepherdsmum
Not another trans thread! Two started in one day, as you know VS because you’ve already posted on the other one. These threads always go the same way, and become unpleasant. What a is the point of this constant ‘discussion’ between the same people? I think all of us know everyone else’s stance by now.
I am a woman I have xx chromosomes, ovaries and a uterus,I could when younger if I choose to, bare a child by mating with a man.
I agree with the above. It is getting repetitive and just becoming a few of you on your own personal agendas. Gransnet is not a Transgender forum and you cannot expect every one of us to support or even read your personal posts.
Goodness have you nothing better to do than come on a forum and tell people what to discuss.
It’s a long while since I last visited GN. Goodness, have you got nothing better to argue about?
I’ve just researched intersectional feminism. Why worry about it?
I treat everyone as I find them. Do me no harm and I’ll welcome you, and expect the same in return. I know people and worry nothing of their pigeonholing. Find a hobby why don’t you.
VS
It's not impossible to change sex in lots of places,
Rosie51
Really? What mammal, not even going to ask about humans, has ever changed sex?
Meaning their gametes have been altered?
And even if a mammal could be proved to have changed sex, what relevance would that have?
I can’t remember who commented that we all came from sludge, but I’d be surprised if anyone, even that poster still regards themselves as sludge, or sees themselves as no different from a rat. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel with “ it’s not impossible to change sex”
It's not impossible to change sex in lots of places really? What mammal, not even going to ask about humans, has ever changed sex?
Everything on this planet evolved from the same sludge
It's not impossible to change sex in lots of places
Science has never reached a fixed point on anything as far as I'm aware
No problem Ilovecheese Always good to be able to demonstrate there are only two sexes, even if there are a few instances of variations in chromosomes.
Exactly, Herefornow. There are a multiplicity of ways to be a human, with many variants. But sex/gender are the most policed of categories. The system isn't going to go down without an almighty battle. All part of the process.
Sorry Rosie51 crossed posts
Herefornow You asked the question: "Given that there are people living in our society with, for example, XXY chromosomes... What are they then?"
They are males with an extra chromosome. They will have XXY chromosomes for all their lives.
Given that there are people living in our society with, for example, XXY chromosomes... What are they then? they'll be a male with Klinefelter syndrome.
snowberryZ
The trouble is Mykrona, the majority of male to female transitioners no longer opt to have bottom surgery.
Even though they feminise themselves in every other way, most transwomen decide to retain their male genitalia. Apparently they use certain tucking and strapping methods so that it doesn't show when wearing dresses.
This is what all the furore is about.
Any man who has decided to self identify as a woman can now access previously women only spaces.
The likelihood is that males who are desperate to be women have been doing that since before the word ‘trans’ was invented.
Those who were desperate to appear as women were unlikely to visit women’s toilets and demonstrate that they were male or to attack females.
There are still those who wish to protect their chosen persona.
However, some males see the chance to pretend they are a woman as an opportunity for wrong doing.
You know what I’m going to say:
-Failed male athletes who claim they are women to cheat women out of their rewards.
-males who see access to female spaces e.g. women’s refuges, female hospital wards, female toilets etc as an opportunity to perpetuate further abuse on already traumatised females.
- Criminals, who claim to be women either to have a chance to perpetrate further harm to women, or because they see female prisons as an easier option.
Et al.
I hear claims on here that this is only a very small percent of TW.
That small percentage are making life difficult for the other TW, and increasing the necessity to preserve female rights to safe spaces, single sex sport, single sex toilets-all I mentioned above.
People including some females who claim that TW have rights that override the needs for these safe spaces are facilitating the potential for harm to women.
Will they understand that?
No.
I don’t want to go down the road of saying all TM and TW must declare themselves as a transwoman or a transman. The largest percentage of trans mean no harm and prefer anonymity.
There are posters who refuse to acknowledge that sex is immutable. This is my mantra for them.
Trans Men are Transmen not male, and Trans Women Are Transwomen not female.
Given that there are people living in our society with, for example, XXY chromosomes... What are they then?
Also, the lgb community would probably have few rights if not for the trans community. The first pride was a riot started and lead by transwomen who were objecting to police brutality of the lgbt+ community at the stonewall inn in New York.
VS isn't the only one revisiting the topic, many of you do. Why is she the only one being mocked for it?
I don’t see that we’re ‘biologically diverse’ - we’re all XX.
Differences in personality, character, preferences, though - that’s another matter entirely, and as we all know, they may vary enormously.
The internet and ardent campaigners do more harm than good yes they do Allsorts.
Let people develop in their own way and become the people they are absolutely and let them do so without trying to deny the simple and irrefutable fact, that a woman is an adult female and a man can never be a woman, any more than a woman can become a man.
I couldn’t disagree more with the op. It’s another thread about trans.
I am a woman, yes I was a tomboy growing up, no one pigeon holed me, however I liked bikes, cars, climbing trees that girls my age did not do. I did not like cuddly toys, dolls in prams, cooking or washing up, that’s why I was more comfortable with the boys, far less complicated than girl friends. Then on reaching my teens I changed I was attracted to boys, got interested in clothes, my passion, hair and make up. I was very much a woman in the making. No one stereotyped me, just let me be. Been married twice and in between various relationships. I think this latest craze of putting everyone into a category ridiculous. Let people develop in their own way and become the people they are. The internet and ardent campaigners do more harm than good.
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