the law as it stands on sex

trisher

Doodledog

Wouldn't that be fantastic?

We are so in need of a new political party anyway (trans issues aside), and a bunch of women who are not scared to call a penis a penis would run rings around the craven bunch of cowards we have on one end of the spectrum and the corrupt uncaring money-grabbers on the other.

They'd get my vote for sure.

I thought you supported women who were afraid of penises and didn't want to see them Doodledog. Most of us can call a penis a penis we just don't regard them as weapons to terrify women (although as I have pointed out displaying one in a public place is and always has been an offence).

Well that's what happens when you make assumptions, trisher.

I support women, whatever they think of penises. I lose patience with politicians who claim to think that they can ever belong on women's bodies, though.

And your comment about penises being used to terrify women is crass, even for you. If you don't understand that a woman who has been raped is likely to be terrified at the thought of a man (however he 'presents') intimately examining her, then that explains a lot.

Or are butch lesbians a minority too so don't matter to the majority?

Or do mascaline presenting women not matter even though... Pesky gender norms

We know the damage done to trans people by the darker element

Is anyone ever going to acknowledge the women also being caught in the cross fire or don't they matter?

People obviously want to talk to me trisher

But if they are going to come out with things about me that aren't true or questions couched in insults I'm just going to keep on pointing that out and that's all they will get from me.

I value my time too much to waste it

What do you mean? The penis is frequently used as a weapon against women.

Doodledog

Wouldn't that be fantastic?

We are so in need of a new political party anyway (trans issues aside), and a bunch of women who are not scared to call a penis a penis would run rings around the craven bunch of cowards we have on one end of the spectrum and the corrupt uncaring money-grabbers on the other.

They'd get my vote for sure.

I thought you supported women who were afraid of penises and didn't want to see them Doodledog. Most of us can call a penis a penis we just don't regard them as weapons to terrify women (although as I have pointed out displaying one in a public place is and always has been an offence).

Doodledog And mine, without a second thought ? I actually posted on Fc’bk one time that in my dream world, Joanna Cherry was First Minister, Elaine Miller would be Minister for Health, and Queen Jo would reign over us in a gentle and kindly fashion as befits a woman of her stature.

Ha JKR is a johnny come lately to this . I am joking I think she is incredible and
very funny. The beard/spacehopper joke made me laugh out loud.

DiamondLily For me too, it was how JKR was castigated and falsely accused that really sparked my attention to this whole debate. I’d been vaguely aware before, but started to read up on it then, and as I’ve said on other threads, it’s like going down the proverbial rabbit hole.
And much as I’m not overly interested in sports, millions are, so in a way the behaviour and misogynistic demands of Lia Thomas, Emily Bridges, Veronica Ivy, etc. have ironically been a good thing as they’ve been so well publicised on MSM and thus brought the trans rights issues into the public eye.

Doodledog

I think you're right, DL, and (I know I keep saying it, but it's true) that the sports debacle has brought the issue into focus. Far more people will have sat up and taken notice about that than ever would have before.

With any luck the walls will come tumbling down soon - they are crumbling already.

The trouble is that 'genuine' transpeople are likely to get caught in the crossfire. The sort of people who, until the TRAs got involved, were happy to be anonymous and live quiet lives will be seen as part of a movement to strong-arm women out of the way and cheat. I feel for them, as it could take years for them to get back to where they were before Stonewall overplayed its hand, and the hangers-on got involved.

I completely agree. I think all this has done a huge disservice to those biological men who just want to live quietly as females, whilst respecting the rights of biological women.

Back in the early 80s, I worked for (the then) DHSS. A chap in his late 50s came in and wanted an interview.

When I went to the interview room, I was confronted by an (obvious) man dressed, and trying to look like a women.

He had changed his name (to a pretty exotic female name), by deed poll, and he told me he was moving home, and just wanted to live quietly as a woman.

His only query was whether, now he had changed his persona, he could change his state pension date to that of a woman.

I explained he couldn't - in those days, what you were at birth was how it stayed (for pension purposes).

He was fine, went off quite happily, and, I hope, led a happy life.

That was to grannydarkhair . I need to type faster!

Wouldn't that be fantastic?

We are so in need of a new political party anyway (trans issues aside), and a bunch of women who are not scared to call a penis a penis would run rings around the craven bunch of cowards we have on one end of the spectrum and the corrupt uncaring money-grabbers on the other.

They'd get my vote for sure.

The trouble is that 'genuine' transpeople are likely to get caught in the crossfire. The sort of people who, until the TRAs got involved, were happy to be anonymous and live quiet lives will be seen as part of a movement to strong-arm women out of the way and cheat. I feel for them, as it could take years for them to get back to where they were.

And how long have we been making that point on here, about the damage to ‘genuine transpeople’ caused by the few ill-intentioned?

Has everyone seen the wonderful photos of the lunch that some of the most out-spoken and bravest GC women had yesterday in London? Queen Jo, Joanna Cherry, Rosie Duffield, Maya Forstater, Alison Bailey, Helen Joyce, Kathleen Stock and a few others. I would have been totally fan-womaning if I’d been in that room ? lots of comments on Twitter on how great it would be if it had been the launch of a new Women’s Party. Can’t say I disagree.

I think you're right, DL, and (I know I keep saying it, but it's true) that the sports debacle has brought the issue into focus. Far more people will have sat up and taken notice about that than ever would have before.

With any luck the walls will come tumbling down soon - they are crumbling already.

The trouble is that 'genuine' transpeople are likely to get caught in the crossfire. The sort of people who, until the TRAs got involved, were happy to be anonymous and live quiet lives will be seen as part of a movement to strong-arm women out of the way and cheat. I feel for them, as it could take years for them to get back to where they were before Stonewall overplayed its hand, and the hangers-on got involved.

I think, to be honest, that these discussions are a good thing though.

There are arguments raging across the net (in various forms), and it has made biological women more aware than they were (me included), as to what is going on.

When JKR was cancelled and those ungrateful wretches she made famous, started sniping, I looked at the debate properly, and became more aware.

Before that, I thought all the "shouters" about TW rights were the usual ragbag, looking for a fight about something/anything.

Just ignored them really.

I didn't realise they had started to gain influence.

Thankfully, now, all this now being bought out into the open has concentrated the minds wonderfully.

Smileless2012

Ahh so I can see from your post DD that what trisher said had been posted was inaccurate and taken out of context.

Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, you could call it twisting my words (if you weren't 'being kind', that is).

Ahh so I can see from your post DD that what trisher said had been posted was inaccurate and taken out of context.

Thanks for the clarification.

Rosie51

And you'll notice the deafening silence from a 'certain section' on this thread. They will not be condemning Veronica Ivy. The most you'll get is a general 'I condemn all violence' never a specific condemnation.

Condemning someone being unkind, naming the person, is the only effective response.

The blanket, and meaningless, response of "be kind to all" is pointless.

And not kind at all.?

Last post to DiamondLily

And you'll notice the deafening silence from a 'certain section' on this thread. They will not be condemning Veronica Ivy. The most you'll get is a general 'I condemn all violence' never a specific condemnation.

trisher

CBA Doodledog was it you? Do you really think I bother to remember who says what on these threads.
I'm not that invested in them.
I pop in from time to time to see how things are going and if some are still posting about sex and gender as if they are the same things. Then I go off into the real world.
Where boys dress as girls, girls dress as boys, people identify as they choose and the world keeps turning. I treat the people I meet with the respect they deserve and accept them as they wish me to. I actually have no idea about the sex of some of the women I meet, nor I suspect do most of us.
I'm far more worried about the rise of the far right, the spread of fundamentalist religions (both Christian and Muslim) and the resrictions those would place upon women than I am about this subject,

Ah ok. Silly me. Here was me thinking that the fact that you've dragged up a point that was made in direct response to your constant refrain of 'how will it be policed? Be specific about what you would do about it' and so on meant that you had remembered. Never mind. If this topic is an example of one you aren't invested in, and you just 'pop in to see how things are going', then no wonder you can't remember.

I'm sure that everyone on this thread is concerned about the rise of the far right, and that everyone treats others with the respect that they deserve, (obviously that phrase can be used to mean pretty much anything, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt).

Could you please clarify what you mean by 'present as a woman' though? It would really help if I understood what that meant.

Chewbacca

Magdalen Berns was a female boxer, a software developer and a lesbian radical feminist. She produced a series of YouTube vlogs in the late 2010s that focused on topics such as women's rights and gender identity. Berns's vlogs attracted attention from transgender rights activists, some of whom accused her of being transphobic and a TERF. Berns co-founded the non-profit organisation For Women Scotland, which campaigns against possible changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004, toilet provision in schools, not allowing males in to Girl Guides amongst other things. She died, at the age of just 36, from a cancerous brain tumour.

One of Magdalen's strongest, and most vocal critics, was Rhys McKinnon/Rachel McKinnon/Veronica Ivy; the transgender world track cycling champion. McKinnon/Ivy, who has a penchant for telling feminists to “die in a grease fire” unless we accept that “the penis is a female body part”, upon hearing of the impending and premature death of Magdalen, is pictured with a speech bubble above their head that reads: “It’s OK to be happy, even celebrate, when bad people die" and completed the post with a cartoon of a skeleton dancing on a grave.

So remember folks - *just be kind and remember that words matter.*

Yes, I put an article on here earlier.

This "oh so kind" person also said to Magdalen Burns:

"And when Magdalen Berns — founder of For Women Scotland — was dying, at 36, of a brain tumour, Ivy lectured this feminist critic of the transgender lobby: 'Don't be the sort of person who people you've harmed are happy you're dying of brain cancer.'"

That is "kindness" we can all live without.?

Good news. Trisher is far more worried about the rise of the far right, the spread of fundamentalist religions (both Christian and Muslim) and the resrictions those would place upon women than I am about this subject.

T-speak for I’m not going to admit you might be right to be concerned about some TW endangering females, usurping their rights and cheating females out of their rightful awards, I’m just going to imply that none of you care about other restrictions on women as much as I do.
???

Magdalen Berns was a female boxer, a software developer and a lesbian radical feminist. She produced a series of YouTube vlogs in the late 2010s that focused on topics such as women's rights and gender identity. Berns's vlogs attracted attention from transgender rights activists, some of whom accused her of being transphobic and a TERF. Berns co-founded the non-profit organisation For Women Scotland, which campaigns against possible changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004, toilet provision in schools, not allowing males in to Girl Guides amongst other things. She died, at the age of just 36, from a cancerous brain tumour.

One of Magdalen's strongest, and most vocal critics, was Rhys McKinnon/Rachel McKinnon/Veronica Ivy; the transgender world track cycling champion. McKinnon/Ivy, who has a penchant for telling feminists to “die in a grease fire” unless we accept that “the penis is a female body part”, upon hearing of the impending and premature death of Magdalen, is pictured with a speech bubble above their head that reads: “It’s OK to be happy, even celebrate, when bad people die" and completed the post with a cartoon of a skeleton dancing on a grave.

So remember folks - just be kind and remember that words matter.