the law as it stands on sex

Do you not take seriously the question of social justice, the NHS, education, climate change, the economy, defense, international relations and trade, honesty, integrity, decency, transparency in government?

Why would any voter chose a corrupt incompetent party funded by Russian money just because they take a certain position on the question of trans rights?

A man in a dress is a man

A trans woman with a penis and testicles is a man

Basic year 7 biology

Doodledog

I've asked this before, but have never had an answer from the 'allies', and I would be very interested to know what they think:

What is the difference between a man in a dress and a transwoman, and how can anyone tell?

Seriously why do you need to ask that?

No one is obligated by their self declared status to answer questions that don't make sense, especially as we are all individual not an ally mass

varian

I must say I cannot believe that many people consider the question of trans people to be the deciding factor in whether to support a political party.

How about the question of women's & girls' rights?
I take that seriously.

I've asked this before, but have never had an answer from the 'allies', and I would be very interested to know what they think:

What is the difference between a man in a dress and a transwoman, and how can anyone tell?

I think the ship has probably sailed on changing some minds on trans issues lol

There is always someone gaining something out of this sort of privately driven public division though

I do think it is interesting trisher but I don't think it is relevant here.

The electorate dont do what you want them to do I am afraid varian, or what I want them to do for that matter. Its a bugger isnt it

Smileless2012

Who has ever said it is OK trisher? Yes it is whataboutaberry DD and has nothing to do with a discussion about trans and safe spaces for women.

Now a priest dressing as a nun because he identifies as a woman and using that persona to access women's safe places would be relevant to this discussion.

You actually questioned if priests had been prosecuted and returned to their church duties Smileless2012 I was replying to that and asking if it was OK for people to be paid off.

I'm not asking anyone to abandon their stance on trans issues. I'm actually interested in why one issue which involves a few people has become such a social media sensation whereas another issue which involves thousands scarecely caused a ripple.
Some might think there was a bit of scapegoating going on, which would of course assist those involved in real and organised abuse.
I think it's interesting, you don't have to.

It looks as if for some that is the case varian, which is why it surprises me that not all political parties appear to be taking the concerns that many have seriously.

I must say I cannot believe that many people consider the question of trans people to be the deciding factor in whether to support a political party.

Mollygo

Actually I don’t find your position very clear at all.
If one of your sons said they were trans, would you support them in any wrongdoings they did using their trans persona?
Would you excuse them and say, “well other people have done worse?”

I would not support their wrong doings. I cannot answer questions about a "persona" because that goes against TWAW doesn't it...

But what you do know is that I believe men may impersonate women or trans women to gain access to women... Without trand women they would still be able to achieve that.

So what about me makes you think that I would support the wrong doings of my child or anyone else no matter their protected status?

When I type againand again that I believe safe spaces are necessary at the present time, what about that makes you think that I would have any sympathy for a abusive person?

Make it make sense

Who has ever said it is OK trisher? Yes it is whataboutaberry DD and has nothing to do with a discussion about trans and safe spaces for women.

Now a priest dressing as a nun because he identifies as a woman and using that persona to access women's safe places would be relevant to this discussion.

........and damaged others in the process of putting their needs first

It makes it very hard for the average person to grow up and live their lives undamaged by others putting their needs first.

Rhys McKinnon/Rachael McKinnon alias Veronica Ivy
Zach Bridges/Emily Bridges
Jonathan Bearden/Jillian Bearden
William Thomas/Liz Thomas
Craig Telfer/CeCe Telfer
Gavin Hubbard/Laurel Hubbard

All put their needs first.

Actually I don’t find your position very clear at all.
If one of your sons said they were trans, would you support them in any wrongdoings they did using their trans persona?
Would you excuse them and say, “well other people have done worse?”

Mollygo you are doing it again. I've made my position very clear, there is nothing hidden for you to question.

The point that is being made is that abusive people use disguises, take advantage of situations, mascerade as something they aren't to harm people. Because a priest who abuses children is not a real Christian.

If we put the blame on abusive people where it belongs we don't place it where it doesn't.

Trouble is there is an abusive person behind most issues, whether their greed or their power hunger or their lack of empathy or their controlling nature or their superiority....

But does that fact have any bearing on the specific matter that is being discussed on here?

It appears that you think the fact that there is an abusive person behind most issues lessens the importance of the issue of transwomen harming harming females.

It doesn’t.
But this type of idea keeps being put forward as a reason for not condemning those ill-intentioned trans - who are notably, mainly transwomen.

There are evil people everywhere, murderers, terrorists, muggers, scammers and many of them are male, as are transwomen.

However, dragging them into a discussion on whether TW should have access to female spaces or have the right to cheat in competitions or have the right to pretend they are female when a female medical professional has been requested
in an attempt to make the TW behaviour seem unimportant is ludicrous.

“I have 5 children”
If one of my children decided they were trans I would offer any support they needed EXCEPT
to support their use of new persona to harm or threaten or cheat or usurp rights from others.
Would you do the same or would you support their wrong doings?

I don’t think Karen White’s parents would have said , “It’s all right Stephen, or David or Karen, I know you’ve raped multiple women, but Fred West actually murdered girls so you’re not so bad”
But that’s what these attempts to minimise the actions of the ill-intentioned transwomen looks like.

Trouble is there is an abusive person behind most issues, whether their greed or their power hunger or their lack of empathy or their controlling nature or their superiority....

It makes it very hard for the average person to grow up and live their lives undamaged by others putting their needs first.

Bringing in priests is whataboutery, pure and simple, as is suggesting that it is somehow wrong to mention the transwomen who murder women and/or rape them in prison cells because transpeople are also murdered, as though the murders make the rapes ok.

The fact remains that housing women and sex offending males in the same sex is dangerous and misogynistic, and the fact that some priests have been abusive and some transwomen have been murdered is also awful, but the two things are not related.

I think you will find feminists have spent a lot of time challenging the church and its lack of safeguarding measures. I spend a lot of time talking about the damage that porn and the notion of 'sex work' does to young women, this doesnt mean I am unable to also discuss sngle sex spaces.

Of course they shouldn't Galaxy but that can be done without venting anger at the wrong people and damaging relationships with anyone

Talking about single sex spaces is important and women and some men arent going to stop talking about the need for single sex spaces.

Smileless2012

But this is a discussion about trans issues, not abusive priests and I assume from your post that you agree with mine trisher when I posted that to my knowledge a priest convicted of abuse has never been protected by church.

So it's OK if a huge organisation buys off offenders by paying off victims so preventing prosecution?
It's quite a simple question why do a few transwomen cause such upset but thousands of abusive priests don't?

The Vatican has also managed to overturn Italian justice rulings this past year: Also in January, the Diocese of Milan transferred Mauro Galli to a different parish, cutting short a six-year prison sentence from the Court of Milan. Last year, Luciano Massaferro, a priest in Italy’s Liguria region, was sentenced to more than seven years in prison by the Italian Supreme Court. His sentence was reduced, and Massaferro was recently reinstated at his church after the Church’s regional tribunal found him not guilty.

“One day at mass we saw him right in front of us,” one of his parishioners told a local paper. “We couldn’t believe our eyes.”
www.vice.com/en/article/k78zqa/catholic-church-reinstated-priests-accused-of-sexual-abuse-michael-pfleger

Let's face it, abusive people never look at themselves and think "hey, I'm the problem here"