The French GE ... voting starts Sunday. ??

Urmstongran

I’m just trying to illustrate that pollsters have a huge margin of error is all. To be honest I don’t set much credence by them after Brexit. And Trump.

You know, Ug, most of us are grandmothers and we do know how to suck eggs.

The margin of error from the final polls was 4 points. As that sort of margin was hailed in some places as a massive vote for Brexit I suppose some people might think it was hugely inaccurate ?

Mamie

I also think you have to factor in the French attitude to protest, ingrained since the revolution and in every century since then. I was in Paris in 1968 and have never forgotten what it was like.
So you protest, block roads, man barricades and strike. This is considered a fundamental right, fought for and won in the blood of the birth of the Republic.
Then after you have done that you do not roll over, but you may accept a compromise.
France like most western countries has a problem with post-industrial decline. The jobs that sustained the traditional working class, steel, coal, shipbuilding have gone. The passion for equality remains. The poor and the dispossessed turn their anger on the political class and where populism reigns and the press is complicit they vote for a joker.
Fortunately France has a tradition of political debate and the jokers get exposed.

I also think you have to factor in the French attitude to protest, ingrained since the revolution and in every century since then. I was in Paris in 1968 and have never forgotten what it was like.

Yes, perhaps the most important point to remember when discussing the French and their attitude towards government / politics. I also think their schooling - as Joseanne says instils a more 'politically aware' mindset... and possibly the ability for critical-thinking.

Co-incidentally, I was also driving through Paris in May '68 and although we didn't stay long, I do remember the tense atmosphere... and the frequent sound of police sirens.

France like most western countries has a problem with post-industrial decline. The jobs that sustained the traditional working class, steel, coal, shipbuilding have gone. The passion for equality remains. The poor and the dispossessed turn their anger on the political class and where populism reigns and the press is complicit they vote for a joker.

Eloquently put. We do not, in this country, appear to have that same passion for equality. We are more like the Americans of Steinbeck's era... "temporarily embarrassed millionaires..." prevented of course by 'woke lefties' from gaining personal wealth (through hard work, ha!) who have the temerity to want a more equal distribution of it for a more equitable society. These wannabee millionaires seem to believe that such a redistribution would unfairly advantage the many benefit 'scroungers' who of course all have the latest Sky package and gazillion-inch TVs - not to mention 'illegal' immigrants who are given the latest iPhone and a house, or at least accommodation in five-star hotels immediately they land on these shores.

So I don't think we will ever bring about real post-industrial change in this country. Though I do remember the political activism of the late 60s when we were less inclined to accept party dogma. That's now evaporated.

Dickens I also think an important factor is that everyone has the values of the Republic drummed into them at school, so Liberty, Equality, Fraternity (and laicity) actually mean something. It formalises the way you are meant to behave. Obviously there are many people in France who fall short and many people in other countries who embody those values, but it isn't expressed explicitly in the same way.
People talk about teaching British values, but what they actually are is never exactly clear or agreed.
I think it does make a difference to people's view of their rights and responsibilities as citizens.

I found a greater emphasis on empathy and collective consciousness when teaching in French schools. Children were encouraged to ask questions and to think for themselves in an existentialist manner. This really surprised me in an education system which is so rigidly prescribed, but I came to the conclusion it wasn't what they were taught, it was how they were encouraged to discover themselves.
To me in comparison the teaching of PSHE in our country is very self centered, and I agree that rights and responsibilities become blurred.

Mamie

Dickens I also think an important factor is that everyone has the values of the Republic drummed into them at school, so Liberty, Equality, Fraternity (and laicity) actually mean something. It formalises the way you are meant to behave. Obviously there are many people in France who fall short and many people in other countries who embody those values, but it isn't expressed explicitly in the same way.
People talk about teaching British values, but what they actually are is never exactly clear or agreed.
I think it does make a difference to people's view of their rights and responsibilities as citizens.

... another excellent post, @Mamie, and you are right.

As for British 'values' - which has the 'ring' of something noble as a statement, we haven't formalised them, so it's impossible to know what they are, because they mean different things to different people. As does our culture.

Joseanne That's interesting because I've always felt that the French system doesn't give any second chances, but maybe it has changed a lot since my last direct contact.

My daughter was in it around the ages of 8/9 and despite the fact that she wrote well there was no question but she had to relearn to use the standard French cursive script. Her first teacher also claimed never to have come across a left-handed child in 30 years of teaching and it was all we could do to stop her forcing her to use her right hand.

Mind you, it would have become an interesting party trick - "I'm ambidextrous but my handwriting is completely different for each hand".

Oh yes, they are real sticklers for prescribed cursive handwriting (and spelling) in France, with no personalised styles allowed! All those wretched dictées drove me mad too as a British child, so much to think about, including all the accents.

If you think about it, political discussions often enter round the table in France at meal times, so maybe the way they introduce philosophy at school serves them in good stead. That and of course the two hour lunch break which allows for a lot of debate!!

I think French education can still be very narrow and rigid chalk and talk Petera, but equally encouraging political and philosophical discussion is definitely a thing.
As you know French state schools are strictly secular. I was teaching a primary class English one day and the teacher asked me about the national anthem. I explained that I could teach them the words, but it is called God Save the Queen. Oh no she said, you can't say that. ?

Oh to take the best bits, (education and other stuff), from both countries, mix them up and throw out all the dross!

Indeed Joseanne. When we had visiting teachers from France in our LEA they were always hugely envious of the level of resources in our schools. Have to say when I started teaching English in primary schools here it felt like going back 30 years.

I’m finding this thread (now over 250 posts) very interesting. It’s good to get a bit of background on the French way of life.

My children were all taught in very small village schools,
around 20/30 pupils in total in the school! It was brilliant
and they all have fond memories of the many external
activities they took part in even 2 weeks on the 'Isle de Ré'
because many of the farming children had never been to
the seaside so it was included in the curiculum - and it was
Government funded.

Oh and my neighbours have not stopped talking about
M. Macron winning, generally they all seem pleased.

even 2 weeks on the 'Isle de Ré

That brought back a memory for me! Not two weeks with a bus load of schoolchildren, though, just my own ?

When we had a French exchange student (probably aged about 15) staying we found out that he had had to stay down and repeat a year. Is that usual? It was many years ago.

I believe having to redoubler in France still exists, but it is rare these days. From what I recall a few years back it was mainly around Year 10 or Year 11 where pupils repeated the year, maybe tied in with exam choices. Young pupils attending the écoles maternelles never redoubler.

Latest from the Telegraph:

“Tomatoes were thrown at French president Emmanuel Macron as he visited a market square in a Paris suburb on Wednesday on his first trip since being re-elected as president.

Footage from the incident shows staff rushing to shield Mr Macron after a member of his security detail was struck by the flying fruit.

Mr Macron's bodyguards shout “projectile!" before opening a special security umbrella to protect the president.”

I thought he was more popular in Paris?

Paris is a big place. ?Size of London?

It's usually flour bombs for politicians in France isn't it?

Just seen a table showing that France has the highest public spending per % of GDP in the eurozone.
Maybe some of the protesters should reflect on that?