Death spiral of the Tory Party

In the run up to the local elections the country lanes near my safe Tory seat little town yesterday are peppered with Conservative posters. One at almost every farm gate.

At least in my part of the world many people it seems are still all for these very rich men and woman bending the rules to make themselves richer, and laughing up their sleeves while they work out how to get away with it.

I honestly can't fathom what levels these corrupt, incompetent, self-serving charlatans would have to stoop to turn off the party faithful and make them think, blow it, I'm just going to vote green/independent/your name here instead this time.

kittylester

Which senior Tories WWM? Genuine question.

Senior Tories like Peter Bottomley seem to be horrified by what their party has turned into. I’ve had a bit of correspondence with a few disenchanted Tory MP’s. Then, of course, there are the ones that either left the party because they would not be led by someone like Johnson or were thrown out. Ken Clarke was retiring anyway but I don’t think he would have stayed. Several years ago we spoke to some Conservative party members who bemoaned the fact that their party appeared to be run by second rate journalists. I know Aaron Bell has criticised his party. Soames was made to leave if I remember right. And we all know what Rory Stewart thinks.

What is the point of saying “ oh but past governments were worse ?”

It’s like your child doing something bad at school and saying but somebody did something as bad or worse last week ? Do you say “that’s alright then?

BlueBell I so want a Labour middle government , Blair was the only Labour leader to win three consecutive general elections but he is the devil incarnate to the left

And the elephant in the room? Let’s be honest most of those against Boris at present wanted (fervently) to stay in the EU. That particular hurt has never healed over.

I think the rocketing cost of living, and the economic problems will affect the next election, whenever it is. Ukraine is one thing, but I can't imagine many casting their vote on the back of it.

Red Wall voters, who helped Johnson so much, are, apparently totally disillusioned with him now.

Brexit, good or bad, is now done, so they won't be able to brandish that as a reason to vote for them.

The far left of the Labour Party might hate Blair, but he was the most electable Labour leader there's been for many years.

They might think Corbyn was wonderful - but many traditional Labour voters, plus other party voters, didn't.

Which is why he stood at two elections, and lost both.

Urmstongran

And the elephant in the room? Let’s be honest most of those against Boris at present wanted (fervently) to stay in the EU. That particular hurt has never healed over.

Examples ?

Well he can’t point to Brexit and say it’s been titanic, apart from a disaster anymore. Surprised to see him in Kiev in an office suit, I felt sure he’d want to dress up in combats, he never misses an opportunity here. Well it’s good for the U.K. weapons industry, can’t say I’m proud of that.

Be careful what you wish for posters.

I cannot see Sir Keir Starmer as the saviour of the U.K.

I can’t be bothered Lucca. It’s old ground. But Google is your friend if you want to look them up.

If you were Ukrainian you’d be delighted to have Boris’ support. Zelinsky certainly is. It’s easy for us over here to minimise what these weapons actually mean for their defences.

He has integrity GrannyGravy13 and calm, intelligent, integrity would be a breath of fresh air and a better platform on which to build than the current chaotic set up.

vegansrock if President Putin’s actions in Ukraine have shown us anything it is that the U.K. or any other Country for that matter would be extremely foolish not to have an armaments programme and not to invest heavily in their armed forces.

Coastpath

He has integrity GrannyGravy13 and calm, intelligent, integrity would be a breath of fresh air and a better platform on which to build than the current chaotic set up.

Sorry Coastpath it’s easy to be in opposition, not sure that I have seen much leadership or statesmanship on the opposition benches.

I am not a fan of this Conservative Government, in fact I am one of the politically homeless.

Urmstongran

And the elephant in the room? Let’s be honest most of those against Boris at present wanted (fervently) to stay in the EU. That particular hurt has never healed over.

I think that is an off the cuff- no evidence based opinion.

I don’t agree.

Agreed GrannyGravy13.

And I fear Starmer may be as wishy-washy over sanctions with Russia as the rest of the EU have been.

As a remainer I can honestly say I'm still sad about Brexit but time has now moved on. We have other issues to deal with now. It's not Brexit that makes me reject Mr Johnson and his party, it's the lies, corruption, broken promises, contracts for mates, Uturns, not turning up for Cobra meetings, partying in lockdown, Russian money, Lebedev's peerage.....I could go on, but you entirely get my drift.

Urmstongran

Well I disagree to some extent. Yes the long knives are out for Rishi Sunak and I’m not sure he’ll survive the scrutiny into his financial dealings. But Boris? No chance. He’s on a bounce from his support of Ukraine. Actually to be honest it makes me feel quite proud how he’s referred to by Zelinsky in such glowing terms and how much the UK is stepping up to the plate. Ben Wallace as his wingman certainly adds to his stature.

Leaks to the Grauniad will be from the usual suspects in the Tory party.

I assume you mean you disagree with the idea that we are seeing the death of the Tory Party. The Tory Party has always been a party of factions, just as the Labour Party is. This model has outgrown its usefulness. It is not just about Sunak. He happens to be the latest MP who has not seen that we have a far better-educated country than we once did. We can all read!

We either have the coalitions decided by these parties as a fait accompli or create the circumstances that give us the people's choice of parties.

For the small minds who only want to discuss people, you are probably right. They may vote for Johnson - as opposed to voting for the party - again. I would guess not in the sweeping way they did last time though.

However, we have many more average minds with the increase in education; they discuss events. I would guess the event that will be in most people's minds at the next election will be the changes in our personal income and in the state safety net. I think that will affect the vote far more than the poster boy and his personal ratings. We also do not have Brexit as an overwhelming event to distract from general events in the country.

It always seems as if there are far more of the small minds because the MSM feeds that view but I wouldn't take it for granted. There are, of course, great minds, discussing ideas. I would doubt they would go for a Johnson led party but their votes could be split 50/50. Some of the great minds have always followed some of the most devasting ideas.

vegansrock

Well he can’t point to Brexit and say it’s been titanic, apart from a disaster anymore. Surprised to see him in Kiev in an office suit, I felt sure he’d want to dress up in combats, he never misses an opportunity here. Well it’s good for the U.K. weapons industry, can’t say I’m proud of that.

So you don't think the UK should have helped Ukraine defend itself? I believe the Labour Party is backing the government. Not sure where the LibDems stand.

I can't believe for one moment that any senior Tories are wishing for a period of opposition!

And they wouldn't get their wish anyway - they have an 80-seat majority and a weak Labour Party.

We may have a big arms industry but we haven’t invested in our armed forces, it’s been cut to fewer than it has ever been. The weapons are for flogging to other countries not to defend ourselves. Are we donating all these weapons with no strings?

vegansrock

We may have a big arms industry but we haven’t invested in our armed forces, it’s been cut to fewer than it has ever been. The weapons are for flogging to other countries not to defend ourselves. Are we donating all these weapons with no strings?

Of course not!

Ukraine will have a massive bill which it will be paying backs for decades.

IMHO many people in the U.K. were more and more fearful of escalating crime, terrorism, ever increasing rules coming from the EU, many seeming contrary to our traditions and beliefs. Many of our woes were perceived to come from uncontrolled immigration.
This government promised to control immigration, be tougher on crime and spend big on infrastructure.
The pandemic has largely thwarted the big spend but it is on hold rather than cancelled. Priti Patel is challenged at every step in trying to tighten up on crime and/or immigration by civil servants who lean a different way. The crisis in Ukraine has brought the fourth estate out en masse in criticism of delay. The delay is sad but inevitable if we are to make our borders secure. We want our grandchildren to attend a pop concert and be safe but we also want to help refugees so we must choose. I choose delay while those refugees are in a safe country and warm and heartfelt welcome once cleared.
I want tougher sentencing, I want stop and search, I’d be happy with ID cards, an open society without secrecy where we can walk our streets in safety.
I do want a more equal society created by better education, encouragement of aspiration and greater opportunity and I do believe that is what Boris Johnson wants too. I’m happy to give him a bit longer post pandemic to prove it.
I feel he has been statesman like over Ukraine which is far more important than his shambolic private life which is none of my business.
Rishi Sunak has a good grasp of economics and seems very capable in his role. His private life is just that.
I believe the government will step in when the rising cost of heating our homes tip some over the edge but also believe we could all do much to help by, those who can, turning down the thermostat and wearing an extra layer so that demand is lower, which will bring down the cost for the more needy. Society has to play its part. Rising gas and oil prices is a crisis throughout the world, we must accept and prioritise nuclear power and alternative energy. No more NIMBYism.
Times are changing and I’d like to see this less disciplined, more adventurous Tory party given a chance. If I’m wrong I’ll vote differently next time.
I now await the onslaught without ducking, but those are my thoughts and beliefs.

Riverwalk

I can't believe for one moment that any senior Tories are wishing for a period of opposition!

And they wouldn't get their wish anyway - they have an 80-seat majority and a weak Labour Party.

Neither can I. The Tories know what will come out when another party does a complete drains-up on where the money has gone over the last dozen years.

I would think there will be a few quaking in their boots when the opposition gets in.

LauraNorderr

IMHO many people in the U.K. were more and more fearful of escalating crime, terrorism, ever increasing rules coming from the EU, many seeming contrary to our traditions and beliefs. Many of our woes were perceived to come from uncontrolled immigration.
This government promised to control immigration, be tougher on crime and spend big on infrastructure.
The pandemic has largely thwarted the big spend but it is on hold rather than cancelled. Priti Patel is challenged at every step in trying to tighten up on crime and/or immigration by civil servants who lean a different way. The crisis in Ukraine has brought the fourth estate out en masse in criticism of delay. The delay is sad but inevitable if we are to make our borders secure. We want our grandchildren to attend a pop concert and be safe but we also want to help refugees so we must choose. I choose delay while those refugees are in a safe country and warm and heartfelt welcome once cleared.
I want tougher sentencing, I want stop and search, I’d be happy with ID cards, an open society without secrecy where we can walk our streets in safety.
I do want a more equal society created by better education, encouragement of aspiration and greater opportunity and I do believe that is what Boris Johnson wants too. I’m happy to give him a bit longer post pandemic to prove it.
I feel he has been statesman like over Ukraine which is far more important than his shambolic private life which is none of my business.
Rishi Sunak has a good grasp of economics and seems very capable in his role. His private life is just that.
I believe the government will step in when the rising cost of heating our homes tip some over the edge but also believe we could all do much to help by, those who can, turning down the thermostat and wearing an extra layer so that demand is lower, which will bring down the cost for the more needy. Society has to play its part. Rising gas and oil prices is a crisis throughout the world, we must accept and prioritise nuclear power and alternative energy. No more NIMBYism.
Times are changing and I’d like to see this less disciplined, more adventurous Tory party given a chance. If I’m wrong I’ll vote differently next time.
I now await the onslaught without ducking, but those are my thoughts and beliefs.

And that, dear fellow GNers, is why the Tories keep getting in.