Death spiral of the Tory Party

LauraNorderr Sun 10-Apr-22 10:33:50

I simply dare not say what that post made me think.

LauraNorderr

IMHO many people in the U.K. were more and more fearful of escalating crime, terrorism, ever increasing rules coming from the EU, many seeming contrary to our traditions and beliefs. Many of our woes were perceived to come from uncontrolled immigration.
This government promised to control immigration, be tougher on crime and spend big on infrastructure.
The pandemic has largely thwarted the big spend but it is on hold rather than cancelled. Priti Patel is challenged at every step in trying to tighten up on crime and/or immigration by civil servants who lean a different way. The crisis in Ukraine has brought the fourth estate out en masse in criticism of delay. The delay is sad but inevitable if we are to make our borders secure. We want our grandchildren to attend a pop concert and be safe but we also want to help refugees so we must choose. I choose delay while those refugees are in a safe country and warm and heartfelt welcome once cleared.
I want tougher sentencing, I want stop and search, I’d be happy with ID cards, an open society without secrecy where we can walk our streets in safety.
I do want a more equal society created by better education, encouragement of aspiration and greater opportunity and I do believe that is what Boris Johnson wants too. I’m happy to give him a bit longer post pandemic to prove it.
I feel he has been statesman like over Ukraine which is far more important than his shambolic private life which is none of my business.
Rishi Sunak has a good grasp of economics and seems very capable in his role. His private life is just that.
I believe the government will step in when the rising cost of heating our homes tip some over the edge but also believe we could all do much to help by, those who can, turning down the thermostat and wearing an extra layer so that demand is lower, which will bring down the cost for the more needy. Society has to play its part. Rising gas and oil prices is a crisis throughout the world, we must accept and prioritise nuclear power and alternative energy. No more NIMBYism.
Times are changing and I’d like to see this less disciplined, more adventurous Tory party given a chance. If I’m wrong I’ll vote differently next time.
I now await the onslaught without ducking, but those are my thoughts and beliefs.

Well, each to their own .

I think Johnson is an unprincipled, self serving liar, who didn't even support Brexit until he thought it would get him into Downing Street.

He was a shyster as London Mayor, and nothing much has changed.

I don’t think we are witnessing the death of the Tory party. I think we are witnessing the death of the current government, which are two different things. The public don’t like dishonesty, however it’s dressed.

LauraNorderr

IMHO many people in the U.K. were more and more fearful of escalating crime, terrorism, ever increasing rules coming from the EU, many seeming contrary to our traditions and beliefs. Many of our woes were perceived to come from uncontrolled immigration.
This government promised to control immigration, be tougher on crime and spend big on infrastructure.
The pandemic has largely thwarted the big spend but it is on hold rather than cancelled. Priti Patel is challenged at every step in trying to tighten up on crime and/or immigration by civil servants who lean a different way. The crisis in Ukraine has brought the fourth estate out en masse in criticism of delay. The delay is sad but inevitable if we are to make our borders secure. We want our grandchildren to attend a pop concert and be safe but we also want to help refugees so we must choose. I choose delay while those refugees are in a safe country and warm and heartfelt welcome once cleared.
I want tougher sentencing, I want stop and search, I’d be happy with ID cards, an open society without secrecy where we can walk our streets in safety.
I do want a more equal society created by better education, encouragement of aspiration and greater opportunity and I do believe that is what Boris Johnson wants too. I’m happy to give him a bit longer post pandemic to prove it.
I feel he has been statesman like over Ukraine which is far more important than his shambolic private life which is none of my business.
Rishi Sunak has a good grasp of economics and seems very capable in his role. His private life is just that.
I believe the government will step in when the rising cost of heating our homes tip some over the edge but also believe we could all do much to help by, those who can, turning down the thermostat and wearing an extra layer so that demand is lower, which will bring down the cost for the more needy. Society has to play its part. Rising gas and oil prices is a crisis throughout the world, we must accept and prioritise nuclear power and alternative energy. No more NIMBYism.
Times are changing and I’d like to see this less disciplined, more adventurous Tory party given a chance. If I’m wrong I’ll vote differently next time.
I now await the onslaught without ducking, but those are my thoughts and beliefs.

I now await the onslaught without ducking, but those are my thoughts and beliefs.

It's hard to know where to start, really...☹

The immediate post war governments? From times when we were really 'All in it together'.

I think some people were more ready believe optimistic messages, Marmadoit.
There was no social media either.

Not all though - I can remember my father's reaction to the slogan "You've never had it so good"!

Casdon

I don’t think we are witnessing the death of the Tory party. I think we are witnessing the death of the current government, which are two different things. The public don’t like dishonesty, however it’s dressed.

Agreed.

I think both major parties and their supporters are in a state of flux but these are difficult times in which to form cohesive and united policies.

People are fed up with all their infighting.

So of the people holding the 4 Offices of State in this country; one is being investigated by the police and once colluded in trying to get someone beaten up, one is a bully who was once sacked for running her own parallel Foreign Policy and wants to introduce laws that are not allowed under international law, the one in charge of how we manage our money supports his wife in avoiding tax, and the other one...well, nothing too awful on him yet.

Makes you proud to be British, doesn't it?

I’m with you LauraNordermy sentiments exactly. Orlin’s too I imagine.
?

Urmstongran

I’m with you LauraNordermy sentiments exactly. Orlin’s too I imagine.
?

Yes Le Pen and Ordan would recognise that right out of their hymn sheet.

Well done.

Yes Urms, Orlin and about 17 million others, not too many on gransnet though.

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

I’m with you LauraNordermy sentiments exactly. Orlin’s too I imagine.
?

Yes Le Pen and Ordan would recognise that right out of their hymn sheet.

Well done.

Very scary. I'd like to think these posters do not recognise what they describe but sadly I think they probably do.

Sadly the echo chamber rolls on. I’m off out in to the sunshine now, while the rest think up some more bile to put down those who with differing opinions.
? Urms

Whitewavemark2

Not my words but senior Tories.

They fear that with the Sunak and Johnson debacle that both have lost complete respect from the voting public.

They worry that this is symptomatic of a political party in decline.

Well, we shall see. But I do believe that this country desperately needs a fresh start and new ideas, with a government of integrity and competence.

Probably not a good idea to offer any prizes for guessing which government of integrity and competence you would like Whitewave

LauraNorderr

Sadly the echo chamber rolls on. I’m off out in to the sunshine now, while the rest think up some more bile to put down those who with differing opinions.
? Urms

Bile? Examples?

LauraNorderr

Yes Urms, Orlin and about 17 million others, not too many on gransnet though.

Why do you think GN is not a reflection of general thinking Laura.

In the election in 2018 24% of voters were prepared to vote extreme far right. This was pre-Brexit, and the poll showed voters were influenced by their wish to leave the EU. [Source: Sunday Times] Therefore it would be reasonable to assume that number has now decreased.

Even if it hasn't, the number sharing extreme right-wing views would be just below a quarter. I think that is more than represented on this forum.

WWmk2 I said ‘Orlin’ (Laura’s husband ex-copper).
Not ORDAN.

LauraNorderr

Sadly the echo chamber rolls on. I’m off out in to the sunshine now, while the rest think up some more bile to put down those who with differing opinions.
? Urms

Isn't it a shame that the truth so damages conspiracy theories. You are well represented on GN LauraNorder. There is no bile - at least not from those who do not share your views.

Urmstongran

WWmk2 I said ‘Orlin’ (Laura’s husband ex-copper).
Not ORDAN.

Why does that not suprise me.

It's a sunny day and there are far better things to do. Hopefully this will be back on track later.

Agree more likely to be the ‘death of the government’ (maybe, maybe not) but not the Tory party itself.

The Conservative party is here to stay, might not win the next election outright, probably have to have a rather large shuffle at the top.

I think the premature elation of its demise is just that, premature…

maddyone

Whitewavemark2

Not my words but senior Tories.

They fear that with the Sunak and Johnson debacle that both have lost complete respect from the voting public.

They worry that this is symptomatic of a political party in decline.

Well, we shall see. But I do believe that this country desperately needs a fresh start and new ideas, with a government of integrity and competence.

Probably not a good idea to offer any prizes for guessing which government of integrity and competence you would like Whitewave

No I think that would be an assumption at the moment.

I am not at all clear with which political party I would place my vote, until I see the manifestos.

I know that I couldn’t at present vote Tory, and from past behaviour I doubt that they will attract my vote.

I know that I am very very disappointed in the way politics has taken us over this past decade and look with horror at the poverty, division and breakdown of our treasured institutions.

Urmstongran

WWmk2 I said ‘Orlin’ (Laura’s husband ex-copper).
Not ORDAN.

Yes I know?

volver

So of the people holding the 4 Offices of State in this country; one is being investigated by the police and once colluded in trying to get someone beaten up, one is a bully who was once sacked for running her own parallel Foreign Policy and wants to introduce laws that are not allowed under international law, the one in charge of how we manage our money supports his wife in avoiding tax, and the other one...well, nothing too awful on him yet.

Makes you proud to be British, doesn't it?

Certainly does !! I would also add the the one in charge of managing our money is probably the biggest hypocrite of all. To try to head off criticism of the spring statement, he attempts to ‘spin’ himself as an ordinary bloke, by borrowing a colleagues’ car and having himself photographed at the pumps - how stupid does he think we are ? When the news about his own family financial circumstances hit the headlines, he reacted with outrage, saying that it was a smear and no-one should have their finances put under scrutiny in this manner. I hope the millions of benefit claimants clocked that comment, given that every area of their lives is put under intense scrutiny before a penny is paid. They have to be transparent about their finances, why are ministers any different ?

Yes, the one managing our money is a huge disappointment.

No bile from me LauraNorderr just wanted to say that with respect, I disagree wholeheartedly with the views you have outlined in your post. Just my opinion.