The law as it stands on sex, Part 2

Exactly Nannee.

And what is this trans supporters' obssession with labels? As if labelling something changes anything? It's just pure semantics.

That's the thing though trisher trans women are not women, a man cannot change sex and become a woman, and it would appear from the threads on GN and what we see and hear in the media, that "a large proportion of society" do not believe or subscribe to the belief that "the term woman encompasses transwomen".

Any confusion arises when trans women are considered to be women, adult females.

The example of someone saying they pray to Jesus to help them find something they've lost, is immaterial IMO Rosie. A label is not being assigned to a non believer whereas the label cis woman is being applied to women who don't like it.

How many men are walking around describing themselves as cis-men, or referring to others as cis-men? Never noticed one, I wonder why that is?

100% agree Elegran.

trisher

It seems a bit illogical to me to say that the term woman is all you need when you know that for a large proportion of society the term woman encompasses transwomen. Some confusion is bound to happen,

Truth

They made the decision that they weren't men, so it is up to them to invent a new label for themselves - not a new label for people who haven't changed from being women.

trisher

It seems a bit illogical to me to say that the term woman is all you need when you know that for a large proportion of society the term woman encompasses transwomen. Some confusion is bound to happen,

What is illogical is thinking the word woman, which means an adult human female includes some men in it, but not all men.
The dictionary doesn't add on to the definition 'and anyone else who'd like to be included'

Mollygo Transwomen are women. Women are not the patriarchy.

It seems a bit illogical to me to say that the term woman is all you need when you know that for a large proportion of society the term woman encompasses transwomen. Some confusion is bound to happen,

If you think you’re an easy woman, that’s fine, but you really need to understand how offensive some people find cis.
It was coined as a way of distiguishing between transwomen and natal women.
Yet another example of your support of the patriarchy!

There would have been no need to coin a way to distinguish between women and transwomen if the meaning of the word women had not been interfered with to suit males.
There is still no need because it’s a fact that
Trans Women Are Transwomen!

Last post to VS

You really don't understand the EA well at all. If the n word was part of my new invented philosophy it still wouldn't be protected under the EA.

You need to advise your friend who prays to Jesus to help you find lost things, that she should be praying to Saint Anthony, patron saint of lost things. I can't imagine you losing things and then telling your friend is a very regular thing, so her prayer and reporting of it is just a very occasional annoyance.

Sorry to bang on VS but just because a term, word or description is part of your personal philosophy it doesn't make it any less offensive to women when you use it.
As elegran and rosie have most recently posted, there is no need whatsoever to add an offensive, demeaning qualifier to the word Woman.

Removing historic information from health records is a minefield. Leaving gender changes aside for a moment, what if someone has an episode in their past that they are ashamed of, but which affects an important part of their health, and they manage to have to have that removed from their medical notes? Then years later a big problem returns and essential information is missing?

The original sex/gender ought to remain in the notes, with legalised alterations made to it if needed. It should remain on the birth certificate too, but with official additions.

VioletSky

Rosie51

Cis has very little history. It was coined as a way of distiguishing between transwomen and natal women.

Cis is a scientific term with lots of history. Cisgender is a word coined by those who subscribe to the ideology of gender identity, not an ideology shared by all, much like other religious or spiritual ideologies.

Women and transwomen differentiates with fewer words. What is it with the TRAs that they want to use superfluous words all the time when mostly just one will do?

Then the word "cis" would be a part of my phylosophical belief thus protected under the equality act

I find it mildly annoying when my friend tells me that they asked jesus for help and jesus helped me find the thing I lost when I believe I found it by going through the entire bin.

But I know that is their belief and they don't mean it offensivly so I just let it go

Ok, but my belief is that humans are what they are at birth.

I don't need to use TW/TM/CIS/gender fluid or anything else.

I assume that my beliefs are also protected under equality laws?

Rosie51

^Cis has very little history. It was coined as a way of distiguishing between transwomen and natal women.^

Cis is a scientific term with lots of history. Cisgender is a word coined by those who subscribe to the ideology of gender identity, not an ideology shared by all, much like other religious or spiritual ideologies.

Women and transwomen differentiates with fewer words. What is it with the TRAs that they want to use superfluous words all the time when mostly just one will do?

Then the word "cis" would be a part of my phylosophical belief thus protected under the equality act

I find it mildly annoying when my friend tells me that they asked jesus for help and jesus helped me find the thing I lost when I believe I found it by going through the entire bin.

But I know that is their belief and they don't mean it offensivly so I just let it go

There is already a word to distinguish people who were observed female at birth and still continue to consider themselves female - it is "woman". They don't need a new one.

People who were observed male at birth but now consider themselves not to be male are the ones who needed another label. If they don't like the clear and descriptive "trans woman" for someone who has crossed the -- Alps-- Rubicon then they can invent a completely new one for themselves

If natal women can freely be called "cis" against their wishes, then there is nothing offensive in trans women being referred to as "he", against theirs.

you will see that trans people may not be called for the correct screening because of gender identity no the main reason they may miss being called for the correct screening is when they have insisted on having the sex marker on their health records changed to their gender identity. Health records should always show the sex at birth, with a gender qualifier if that's what the patient wants. Isn't it less than 1% are transgender, so not too much work just to add that qualifier for those who request it.

Cis has very little history. It was coined as a way of distiguishing between transwomen and natal women.

Cis is a scientific term with lots of history. Cisgender is a word coined by those who subscribe to the ideology of gender identity, not an ideology shared by all, much like other religious or spiritual ideologies.

Women and transwomen differentiates with fewer words. What is it with the TRAs that they want to use superfluous words all the time when mostly just one will do?

Nannee please see my last post

But obviously if it was deemed offensive I would need another way to differentiate to ensure everyone gets the correct care and services they need... So I'd be back to square one

Also I can't see any reason it would ever be deemed offensive really

It has been stated on several trans threads that some posters find the word cis offensive trisher, so it isn't necessary to use the term when making general references to natal women, and would be a courtesy not to do so.

Diamondlily in an ideal world perhaps but if you look at the NHS own website under the topic of gender dysphoria you will see that trans people may not be called for the correct screening because of gender identity

So a trans woman might get called for a breast exam but not a prostate exam

It's frustrating but it's true

I do say trans women, many don't, they just say women, some organisations don't, they just say women. Gender Recognition Certificates exist and they say female, which means some people and organisations also say female...

So by using cis I am showing I am happy with that differentiation so we can all access the services we need and stop mistakes being made

That's my reason for using it, absolutely nothing else

Thanks for your reply VS but it's the point of you waiting to be told it's not ok to use certain terms before you'll stop using them.

Is your own judgment not enough that you have to wait for legislation to tell you what you're saying is right or wrong?

VioletSky

No that's not true either Diamondlily

For instance, a trans women may be taking hormones that grow breast tissue and be called for breast screening at the appropriate time

But, presumably, the person would be having treatments through gender reassignment clinics?

In which case, they and the GP, would refer for any tests/monitoring specific to that person.