Roe v Wade

I too am pro choice. To call women who decide (for whatever reason) to have an abortion murderers is appalling, all the more so when your opinion cannot be explained by based on religious dogma. To insist that a 20 week old foetus breathes and is capable of independent existence in the face of contrary evidence is ridiculous in the extreme. I wonder how many women who have had, and maybe regret, abortions read those views but didn’t post? We know that many more people read than post. How are they feeling today?

An opinion is just that, someone's view, it doesn't have to be backed up with facts.

I don't disagree with you that this is how some people's minds work foxie48, but what a terrible statement that is. What someone believes can be based on nothing at all, just what they think? When there are actual facts that they are ignoring? I despair....

An opinion is just that, someone's view, it doesn't have to be backed up with facts. Sadly lots of people have extremely offensive opinions on all sorts of subjects but I've never found that getting angry or attacking them has ever changed their opinion, it just gives them air time, but that's just my opinion!

She is entitled to her opinion - but basically calling women who have sought a legal & safe medical procedure’ child murderers’ is extremely offensive.
Putting a woman who has had a legal termination in the same boat as Myra Hindley is just revolting.
I wouldn’t terminate a pregnancy at 20 weeks, but I would not stop other women doing it if that’s what they choose.

I started a thread some time ago about the difference between facts and opinions, and was called a superior and arrogant snob. Because everyone's opinion is equal, apparently. Look where that approach has got us in 2022.

I can understand why some people are so convinced that abortion is murder and so on. If you think that a foetus is a baby, you must look around and see all these babies being killed by thoughtless women who could just have kept their legs closed. So no wonder you are angry.

Its a mystery to me in this day and age why people still think that foetuses are living breathing babies, especially if they are not religious, but they do. I don't know what we do about that.

eazybee

Theodora is entitled to her opinion.

There are some extremely uncharitable personal attacks being voiced on here, because she doesn't agree with what appears to be the majority view.

Of course she is entitled to her opinion - but when it comes to making claims which are blatantly untrue, you cannot expect others to simply ignore that. As I said to her more than once on this thread, you cannot simply twist scientific facts to try to support your argument. I notice that she did not reply to that. Opinions are all good and well - but back them up with actual facts, not fiction.

Eazybee Well said, Theodora is entitled to her opinion and as Kandinsky says "Leave women to decide" although I think she means only the ones who agree with her?
I'm not "pro-abortion" but I am "pro-choice" and there is a difference. I'm old enough to have had a sex life pre the contraceptive pill and when unwanted pregnancies were either continued with the girl getting married quickly (often to an unsuitable partner) the child was adopted, with all the trauma that causes or there was a dangerous and expensive visit to a back street abortionist. Thank goodness that we have access to much better contraception now and I think if you don't want a child, use contraception. However, sometimes it fails. It's happened to me. I made the decision to go ahead with the pregnancy and it was the right decision for me but I absolutely support a woman's right to make a different decision. Surely, that's what we are talking about? Not the rights or wrongs of abortion. Some people will never feel that's it's right to have an abortion, some people feel that contraception is wrong, they are entitled to their opinion and have the right to make their own choices, the real danger is when a group of people decide they want to make the decisions for other people, so they don't have a choice.

eazybee

Theodora is entitled to her opinion.

There are some extremely uncharitable personal attacks being voiced on here, because she doesn't agree with what appears to be the majority view.

We have had such a long fight for women's right to choose and this is such a far-right/male superiority/classist/religion backed change that being charitable doesn't come into it on either side, as far as I can see.

As for hers (yours?) being a minority view. Those seeking to govern women's reproduction (very Handmaid's Tale) need to know that most women and many men will not let that happen without a fight.

... as pointed out indirectly by a journalist (male)...

... when women can legislate what men can and can't do with their reproduction system, then I might listen to what they think we should be allowed to do with ours...

I don’t think Theodora is to be persuaded from her/ his?opinion, any more than we are.
It’s retrograde but thank heavens it’s not here in the UK and I feel for women elsewhere whose choice over their bodies is potentially being denied ( by men ).

Theodora is entitled to her opinion.

There are some extremely uncharitable personal attacks being voiced on here, because she doesn't agree with what appears to be the majority view.

TheodoraP

daisy I think abortion is the most wicked thing to take a babies life how terrible

Yes
Much better to kill an actual living woman

It isn't only that women seek abortions. Before the law was changed I knew a girl who tried to commit suicide when she found out she was pregnant. She was saved but lost the baby. She just felt there was no way out for her.

You’re not anti abortion if you’re okay with aborting for disability - you’re just dictating what women you think are worthy.
A woman wanting to abort a 5th pregnancy because that child will simply send her over the edge both financially & mentally is just as ‘worthy’ as a woman aborting a child with a disability.
In other words,
Leave women to decide for themselves.

Sally Rooney on the Irish abortion ban, 2018.

You have not ‘explained several times’ Theodora. You seem to be very naive as to the reasons why a woman may seek abortion. You also say you don’t know what ‘far right’ means, which I find incredible, and that you have never voted. Maybe you are a young and ignorant idealist who has never been pregnant. I’m being charitable in saying that.

TheodoraP

sueDonim I wasn't aware of that that is un just

I wonder what else you’re unaware of. Maybe you’re also unaware that a 20-week-old foetus (not a baby) cannot breath or live outside the womb.

germanshepard you ate not reading the posts I have explained several times that aborting a baby with serious health issues is a completely different matter

This has turned into nonsense so I will gracefully be gone

In that case I find your argument ludicrous. If you were a practising Catholic I could at least understand where you get your extreme ideas. I find it amazing that any woman could expect another to give birth to a baby conceived in rape or which would have a short life of suffering. Where is your humanity?

My friend became a police officer back in the 60s. Her very first job was to attend a back street abortion that had gone wrong. The woman who had been aborted was dead. My friend said she has never forgotten it.

I agree with Elegran women who really want/need an abortion will find a way possibly putting themselves in danger or will commit suicide.
This is such a backward step, there are not many women who take this step lightly.

Someone said upthread "No law will stop abortion." and that is true. Not every pregnancy by every woman is positively and willingly achieved, the foetus is not always healthy and perfect, and the mother doesn't always stay fit and well and know that she will be able to look after that child and able to afford also to look after the children and other dependents she has already. (and remember that as well as grown women, any female from puberty to the menopause is capable of pregnancy, including sexually abused children and vulnerable women of low intelligence)

It is easy to say that others shouldn't be allowed to terminate an impossible pregnancy under hygeinic, medically supervised conditions, when you have never been at your wits end. Denying them that is condemning them to amateur backstreet operators.

As if I did have a religion how easy would it have been for you to use it as an excuse for my reasons for disagreeing with Abortion

I knew my opinion would not be popular but that's fine

germanshepard I have no religion sorry to dissapount you

silverlining48

The mother’s right trumps ( excuse the pun) the foetus.

It has to. In no other situation would you insist on hooking a human unable to sustain their own life up to someone who could do it for them, against the sustainer's wish.

Making people continue to carry dead babies or those who have no hope of life outside the womb is a wicked use of the power one human has over another. Making any women become a mother against their wish is treating them like slaves or cattle.