Nationalism the fashionable form of government

volver

Oh, and Cathymac. 34% is 1 in 3, not 1 in 7.

Yes I made a mistake. It was 34% of the vote share …. And I
Meant to say that was 1 in 7 of the total population. I do agree that an Indy ref would be different because there would be a much higher turnout…. The SNP is the largest party in terms of seats. , but it does not make nationalism the most popular. Nationalism gained about 500 seats and the rest about 600.

Cathymac

volver

Oh, and Cathymac. 34% is 1 in 3, not 1 in 7.

Yes I made a mistake. It was 34% of the vote share …. And I
Meant to say that was 1 in 7 of the total population. I do agree that an Indy ref would be different because there would be a much higher turnout…. The SNP is the largest party in terms of seats. , but it does not make nationalism the most popular. Nationalism gained about 500 seats and the rest about 600.

Actually on re reading… I did say 1 in 7 of the population in my original post.

Callistemon21

Wasn't supposed to be once in a generation?
A generation could be 16 years, it could be 40 in some families.

It is generally reckoned to be about 25 years so only another 17 years to wait.

Callistemon21
Wasn't supposed to be once in a generation?

I come back to the bit I don't understand. Why did you believe that was a fact when it was only party spin?

What did you miss out on in life that meant you didn't understand the difference? If you thought they were telling you facts do you now blame them or yourself for being conned?

It's very puzzling.

Urmstongran

I think Indy2 should go ahead. ‘Once in a generation’ isn’t cutting it for some. Best to crack on and decide once and for all. But if it fails no best of 3! Time to put this uncertainty to bed and move forward in whatever way the Scottish voters decide.

We come back to facts and fiction Urmstongran. What, in your life's experience persuaded you, that an individual rather than the law, got to choose. Why did you miss the bit of education that tells you that is not the case?

If the 'best of three' is legal, your views are superfluous.

Politics is about the law and is based on law. The rest is flummery.

Urmstongran

I think Indy2 should go ahead. ‘Once in a generation’ isn’t cutting it for some. Best to crack on and decide once and for all. But if it fails no best of 3! Time to put this uncertainty to bed and move forward in whatever way the Scottish voters decide.

If we have another vote, and the answer is "no", then it will be best of three already.

And people say that they Scottish Education system is failing...

If we're being picky Cathymac, what you said was 34.1 %. of the population voted SNP. One in seven of the population.

Anyway.

When you say "nationalism", I would say "parties who support independence".

Which brings us right back to the OP.

Callistemon21

Wasn't supposed to be once in a generation?
A generation could be 16 years, it could be 40 in some families.

It is generally reckoned to be about 25 years so only another 17 years to wait.

In a family I know of, the youngest GC is 14 months older than the oldest GGC, so "once in a generation" becomes even more meaningless than it ever was.

WhenIwasyourage you're correct that general elections are first past the post but Scottish Assembly elections are on a preference vote and a list vote. It was set up that way to stop one party having overall control.

Elections for the Scottish Government (Assembly) are FPTP for the constituency MSPs the D'Hondt PR for the list. Preference vote is something else again.

OmaforMaya

I am Scottish...live in Scotland and I totally agree with you. Scotland under SNP is in a huge mess and it would be catastrophic for us to break away from the UK. We would be in a dictatorship....which we are almost in at the moment under Nicola Sturgeon.

Scotland under the SNP is in a mess OK BUT

Given how devolution works Scotland is 2/3 under the policies and laws of the Tory Government at Westminster SG is only able to control issues that are devolved. Even then, as we have more or less established in this forum, Almost all Taxes and revenues raised in Scotland go direct to the UK exchequer who then decides how little we will get back.

It is impossible to extrapolate from the current situation where Scotland is mainly controlled by Westminster, to a future Independent Scotland where all decisions re budgets, taxes, affiliations etc, etc will be decided by the government of Scotland, which will be elected only by people who live in Scotland and serve their interests and ideals.

Wheniwasyourage

Callistemon21

Wasn't supposed to be once in a generation?
A generation could be 16 years, it could be 40 in some families.

It is generally reckoned to be about 25 years so only another 17 years to wait.

In a family I know of, the youngest GC is 14 months older than the oldest GGC, so "once in a generation" becomes even more meaningless than it ever was.

Yes, the generations "flow" in our family too!

Ours too- oldest grandchild is 27, oldest great grandchild is 10. The youngest grandchild is 3, but we have a great grandchild of 3 as well. Quite confusing for the little ones.

'Once in a generation' was never an official commitment.
A huge amount has changed since 2014.

FarNorth

'Once in a generation' was never an official commitment.
A huge amount has changed since 2014.

Scotland’ s Future….. the White Paper for Independence . November 2013.
Go to the questions and answers at the end . Number 557
“ A referendum is a once in a generation opportunity “. This is actually written in the White Paper.. an official document…so I don’t know why independence supporters try to deny it. Makes you wonder what else in the White Paper was fiction..
However as we know politicians of all kinds make promises they don’t keep.

It is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity. This means that only a majority vote for Yes in 2014 would give certainty that Scotland will be independent.

Which is not the same as "we promise never to have another referendum for a generation."

Well they would say that wouldn't they?

Alex Salmond said in an Andrew Marr interview that there would be a “generational gap “ before an other referendum.

Marr: "Can you pledge that Alex Salmond will not bring back another referendum if you don't win this one?"

Salmond: "In my opinion, and it is just my opinion"

"That's my personal view"

Got any more straws to clutch? I'll have a look at them for you.

There's straw clutching and desperate attempts at deflection on here but it ain't by us unionists!

No, of course not. Find me the bit of the Edinburgh Agreement that says "If we lose this referendum we'll promise never to ask again until 25 years have passed, even if everything which the Better Together side promises has somehow been forgotten about."

Say what you will, we're not giving up. ??

Do the unionists recall being told, by numerous UK politicians, that the only way to be sure of staying in the EU was to vote No?
We know what happened to that one.

“ Once in a generation “ was quoted by Nicola Sturgeon , Alex Salmond and others. It was all over their campaign. It is also twice more in the White Paper in the Foreward and also in the Preface by Alex Salmond… once in a generation to chart a better way. So your not telling me that the majority of the population thought there was going to be another Indy ref in a few years time. Think we have to agree to disagree. Heading out now for a lovely dinner (hopefully ?)

Oh I'm so tired.

Was it a promise? Or was it a way to try to get people to vote of independence by saying that you may never get another chance?

Enjoy your dinner.

vote for independence.

Told you I was tired.

I am well aware that this is tit-for-tat but am so fed up with all the opprobrium that the SG is getting re the Ferry fiasco, that I felt obliged to post.....

It seems matters have become even worse, with all six of the RN’s destroyers currently not in service.
Source: Evening Standard (7 February 2022) ‘All six Royal Navy destroyers in port for engine repairs amid heightened tensions with Russia – The Defence Select Committee warned in December 2021 that availability of the ships was a ‘major cause for concern’
‘All six of the Royal Navy’s state-of-the-art Type 45 destroyers are currently docked in port, at a time of heightened tensions with Russia.’