Champagne Socialist

MayBee70

The guy who does maintenance work on my house who lives in sheltered accommodation and has a partner with ongoing health problems doesn’t vote Labour because it’s full of champagne socialists. Which probably sums up what’s strange about peoples voting habits. I’m voting to make myself financially worse off to support someone like him who votes Conservative. Make of that what you will

?

nightowl

I don’t like champagne very much but I believe everyone has a right to drink it if they want to. I am a socialist, and I most definitely do not support the capitalist system. The results of that system are what we have now - an ever increasing gulf between the richest and poorest. I believe in a strong welfare state and nationalisation of key industries and services - but I am definitely not a communist and actually something of a libertarian. A mass of contradictions me.

So what do you mean by socialist? Do you believe in a different form of economic system?

The guy who does maintenance work on my house who lives in sheltered accommodation and has a partner with ongoing health problems doesn’t vote Labour because it’s full of champagne socialists. Which probably sums up what’s strange about peoples voting habits. I’m voting to make myself financially worse off to support someone like him who votes Conservative. Make of that what you will

I don’t like champagne very much but I believe everyone has a right to drink it if they want to. I am a socialist, and I most definitely do not support the capitalist system. The results of that system are what we have now - an ever increasing gulf between the richest and poorest. I believe in a strong welfare state and nationalisation of key industries and services - but I am definitely not a communist and actually something of a libertarian. A mass of contradictions me.

MayBee70

Well, my interpretation of a champagne socialist has always been someone who realises that they personally would be worse off financially under a Labour government but feel it is worth it if the majority of people have access to ether health care, schooling and housing. Having campaigned over the past few years with people from all parties ( excluding UKIP) I’ve found that most people want what’s best for the people of this country but just disagree about how the economy should be run and many believe ( imo wrongly) that Conservative economic policy is better.

? that’s a good description.

Well, my interpretation of a champagne socialist has always been someone who realises that they personally would be worse off financially under a Labour government but feel it is worth it if the majority of people have access to ether health care, schooling and housing. Having campaigned over the past few years with people from all parties ( excluding UKIP) I’ve found that most people want what’s best for the people of this country but just disagree about how the economy should be run and many believe ( imo wrongly) that Conservative economic policy is better.

Mamie

Baggs I went to university in 1968 which probably says it all. ?
Brought up a true blue Conservative, never wavered from socialism since I learnt to think for myself, occasionally voted LibDem tactically. Like living in France because I think it is essentially a socialist country, no matter what flavour of politician is in charge.
Drink Cava, followed by Prosecco and then a sparkling Saumur. Don't tell the neighbours. ?

I went to uni six years after you, mamie. Brought up socialist and was an active member of the Labour Party until near the end of the last century. Gradually since then I have become what is essentially politically homeless.

Whitewavemark2 I find it goes down far too quickly and smoothly ??

Yes I have had cremant (Alsace and Bourgogne) GG13 and have enjoyed them. There are also some pink bubbles made from Languedoc wines that are quite interesting. I do like Spanish wine though.

GrannyGravy13

Mamie have you tried Cremant? it’s very smooth with much softer bubbles than Cava.

It is getting popular and easier to locate in the U.K. now, but as you are in France it should be easy to find.

I have! We always have that instead of Prosecco etc.

Mamie have you tried Cremant? it’s very smooth with much softer bubbles than Cava.

It is getting popular and easier to locate in the U.K. now, but as you are in France it should be easy to find.

Whitewavemark2

Whitewavemark2

MaizieD

So my ideal government is

One presiding over a capitalist economy

You should be loving our current government then...

I am really shocked that people forget about mixed economies.

You then don’t give consideration to my third sentence?

Just to expand on what I mean.

My theory is that everything flows from the economic order.

I may not necessarily think it is the ideal, but I think that at present our present level of political maturity only works with a capitalist system.

I recognise that of its nature the capitalist economic system is one of exploitation. Exploitation being used in an objective sense. I also argue that business does not necessarily exploit resources for the common good, like air and soil quality and other such.

Because of this I think we need a strong democratic state, that uses the rule of law to control this exploitation of resources.

So this included resources such as labour, and raw materials, but also air quality, soil quality, etc.

Control may therefore take the form of state managed resources. This can be achieved both by the rule of law e.g. prevention of further carbon exploitation, or by nationalisation, like water - (I think that there is a strong argument for this) or other resources.

So in effect I see a mixed economy as possibly necessary in order to give a smooth running to a capitalist economy, allowing for fair access to resources, and oiling the wheels like good public transport to get people too and from work.

In my view a mixed economy has nothing to do with the socialisation of an economy, but an economy that is focused on the efficient and fair running of a market economy.

Baggs I went to university in 1968 which probably says it all. ?
Brought up a true blue Conservative, never wavered from socialism since I learnt to think for myself, occasionally voted LibDem tactically. Like living in France because I think it is essentially a socialist country, no matter what flavour of politician is in charge.
Drink Cava, followed by Prosecco and then a sparkling Saumur. Don't tell the neighbours. ?

I’m a Prosecco sipping anti tory floating voter.

Grany

I am a socialist
We Can Build a New Economic Order

I like champagne in moderation

www.jacobinmag.com/2022/05/jeremy-corbyn-progressive-international-climate-war-crisis

I don't think there is such a thing as a "New Economic Order". If you look back in history, the more extreme you get, the more you bump into the other lot of extremists coming in the opposite direction.

I think there is a rebalancing of the current "order", though.

Whitewavemark2

MaizieD

So my ideal government is

One presiding over a capitalist economy

You should be loving our current government then...

I am really shocked that people forget about mixed economies.

You then don’t give consideration to my third sentence?

Just to expand on what I mean.

My theory is that everything flows from the economic order.

I may not necessarily think it is the ideal, but I think that at present our present level of political maturity only works with a capitalist system.

I recognise that of its nature the capitalist economic system is one of exploitation. Exploitation being used in an objective sense. I also argue that business does not necessarily exploit resources for the common good, like air and soil quality and other such.

Because of this I think we need a strong democratic state, that uses the rule of law to control this exploitation of resources.

So this included resources such as labour, and raw materials, but also air quality, soil quality, etc.

Control may therefore take the form of state managed resources. This can be achieved both by the rule of law e.g. prevention of further carbon exploitation, or by nationalisation, like water - (I think that there is a strong argument for this) or other resources.

I'm with WWM2

... and I only drink coffee.

Whitewavemark2

Grany

I am a socialist
We Can Build a New Economic Order

I like champagne in moderation

www.jacobinmag.com/2022/05/jeremy-corbyn-progressive-international-climate-war-crisis

What would be your idea of a new economic order?

I’ve just read the article by Corbyn, well skim read it tbh.

It seems that he is arguing for a world wide socialist economy.

I wonder how he intends to achieve that?

MaizieD

^So my ideal government is^

One presiding over a capitalist economy

You should be loving our current government then...

I am really shocked that people forget about mixed economies.

You then don’t give consideration to my third sentence?

Grany

I am a socialist
We Can Build a New Economic Order

I like champagne in moderation

www.jacobinmag.com/2022/05/jeremy-corbyn-progressive-international-climate-war-crisis

What would be your idea of a new economic order?

Sorry, a bit off topic, but it’s surely discriminatory that there’s no emoji suitable for a G&T, while so many other tastes are catered for?
Who do I complain to? ?

So my ideal government is

One presiding over a capitalist economy

You should be loving our current government then...

I am really shocked that people forget about mixed economies.

Mamie

That is interesting Baggs. I have always thought of you as a libertarian, right from the beginning of Gransnet. ?

That is interesting too, mamie. I'm afraid I can't return the favour with a political assessment of you! ?

Sorry Grany I may have abandoned Mr.Johnson but aligning myself with Mr,Corbyn is just one enormous step too far.

I am a socialist
We Can Build a New Economic Order

I like champagne in moderation

www.jacobinmag.com/2022/05/jeremy-corbyn-progressive-international-climate-war-crisis