Our bloated NHS - it’s beyond ridiculous now.

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I wonder who the report happy people/person is. This debate has been heated at times but that’s unremarkable given the subject.
I rarely agree with Urmston on politics but I’m glad she’s posted that she isn’t the one reporting. Strong political views and well able to stand your corner Urmston

The people I know in the private sector are earning more and have better terms and conditions than those in the public sector

Use of agency staff

varian

I can see that hospitals and schools need to be able to take on temporary staff so why not have a temp agency in house as part of the service?

I would think it is the difference between most of us believing in a capitalist society and the Tories believing in a totally market based society. They believe, that markets for everything will make them richer - they start with money after all - and they that they can convince the normal conservative voter that it will make them richer too - in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Use of agency staff has increased as employers avoid the broader costs of employing permanent staff. Temp staff will always be needed but it’s just wrong that hospital wards, schools, social work etc have difficulty recruiting/retaining permanent staff. I’ve seen agency staff earning more than permanent, simply walking out leaving service users abandoned

growstuff

Parsley3

Are people with mental health issues to be called time wasters? First step on the road to blaming people for their ill health.

They're already in that category according to some people.

Growstuff and Parsley3

Not according to some people, this is how people with serious MH issues ARE being treated in the UK today .... I know because my daughter is sadly one of them, and it is just awful watching her live no life because she wants to end it, there's no joy in life for her anymore and she can see no future for herself. How many times does one person have to try and commit suicide before someone will help? The last time she tried she would have succeeded had her friends not looked in on her, and she now resents them for doing the 'right thing'.

It is called Serenity Integrated Mentoring, or SIM,

“High Intensity Network (HIN), who developed the Serenity Integrated Mentoring (SIM), state that the model supports “high-intensity users” of emergency services “who struggle with complex trauma and behavioural disorders” in order to reduce “intensive demand on police, ambulance, A&E departments, and mental health crisis teams”.

So people who have suffered severe trauma are effectively being dealt with by the Police rather than by A&E Depts and MH Teams .....

stopsim.co.uk/

Thank you Iam64.

varian

I can see that hospitals and schools need to be able to take on temporary staff so why not have a temp agency in house as part of the service?

Most do now.. Hospital Bank..
They tend to be of part time staff within the Trust.
Perfect if you want to work the extra odd day, plus recently Retired staff sign up. A young friend who is a single parent works extra 12 - 16 hours a week on the Bank on days that suit her Childcare
with her Ex. Fits in perfect for her.
Pay tends to be same as substantive staff, plus holiday pay.

All 0% hours contracts. You have to keep all your Professional qualifications up to date, do you yearly statutory training otherwise you can't work.

During Covid these guys came out of the woodwork to help, well they did in my Trust.

Not as expensive as Agencies, which can charge at least extra £10 per hour or more for Agency fees.

Urmstongran

^The NHS is short of money^
Really MaizeD? Short or just ill-targeted? What about the inclusiveness and diversity managers? How do they heal the sick?

Urmstongran. This question about inclusiveness and diversity was raised earlier (17.30ish) and posters responded. You ignored what they said and now, again you repeat the exact same thing.

I'll repeat myself now. Diversity is important in attracting and enabling a wide range of staff in order to meet the organisations aims i.e. healing the sick.

22% of NHS staff are from ethnic groups other than white.
42% of medical staff working in the NHS are from a BME background.

Engaging with a diverse workforce is essential to healing the sick. If the NHS does not do this effectively the existing staff shortages will be even worse. Do you understand that?

Glorianny, it is not out of date at all. I live between the borders and can assure you that everything I have reported has happened very recently. I am having a load of hospital tests repeated because the hospitals cannot see the records as my GP uses a different system; the hospital in the next county cannot see them. The ambulance that didn't turn up was 3 weeks ago, the ambulance that did where I sat and talked about the waste with the crew who couldn't take my mother to hospital was last week. The GP who they spoke to in one county that they served couldn't see the records of my Mother in the County where my GP is. I have no reason to lie about this. It is our experience.
The Paramedic's experience with the purchase of a new ambulance fleet with a different Marque where all the storage had to refitted in a less accessible place because the previous bespoke designed storage didn't fit the new Marque was within the last 3 years. His many other tales were recent.
Yes, I use the NHS App, it doesn't hold complete records. I can also report that much of mine is missing!

Gloriannie, the Nurse I was talking about is considered to be an expert which is why she is part of the team looking at change. As for dismissing the long serving Paramedics because they are not "experts", then you dismiss the people who were them and have been promoted to the top as "experts". If the people on the ground don't know what they need to make their job doable in this fast changing day and age, then I am damned sure that the little grey men in suits don't have the expertise either.

I posted just a couple of weeks ago about having had 4 scans which all showed the same problem.
I had to contact pals to insist that I needed no more scans.
I needed to see someone to discuss the results.

Glorianny

icanhandthemback

As I spent the evening with yet another ambulance crew who couldn't take my mother to hospital because there were not enough beds, we discussed the state of the NHS because my last urgent call to the ambulance service did not end with an ambulance arriving even though I waited up all night for it. Eventually the fire service friends of my husband arrived to lift my Mum up off the floor and get her into bed until the Community Nurse could get there.
Anyway, the crew said that there was plenty of money in the NHS but it was poorly spent. Millions go on poorly thought out software, bad decisions about equipment and vehicles were amongst their complaints. They said some of the decisions were made by managers who were operational years ago are based on what they used to do despite lengthy consultations with current operational staff and this just doesn't work efficiently. They are in despair. This is not the first time I have had this sort of discussion with NHS staff. One of my friends is Community Nurse who has been given a Queen's Nursing Medal and after 39 years of giving her all she has had enough. She has had to reapply for her job so many times for restructures, has seen the waste of money whilst her staff are worked to death and sits in meeting after meeting telling the managers that actually their new ideas have been tried and failed before. They won't listen to the feet on the ground or experienced staff.
It isn't a National Health Service either. Each Trust uses different IT systems so can't liaise. If you live on the Border you can be sent to a different Trust to where you live. They will set up all sorts of "help" from bought in services so you can be discharged safely only to find when you get home, you get a call to say that they can't do the things they thought they could do because you live 2 yards over the border. Consequently they have wasted hours of time for several members of staff to organise stuff you can't have. It is a joke.

This really is a lot of out of date and unsupported hearsay.
There are now two organisations dealing with technology in the NHS. NHS Digital digital.nhs.uk/
and NHSX now changing to this www.nhsx.nhs.uk/blogs/2020-year-health-technology/
Most primary health care providers use Systm one en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SystmOne

It is a fast and quickly changing area that has seen huge changes developed to deal with Covid.
How many of us now have the NHS App?
Is it perfect? of course not. But imagining any ambulance staff or nurse is an expert is a bit ridiculous.

I think it was in about 2014 that I signed something to say that my medical information could be shared between ANY medical professional that needed to see it - I wasn't keen, but because I am a very medically complicated person, I felt it was necessary .... Roll on 2021, and my new Consultant in a University Hospital literally has had to contact 5 different hospital for my notes so that he can get a full picture of what has been happening to me, and what each hospital has done about it, so it STILL hasn't happened - C21st and we sent a man to the moon over 5 decades ago, but hospitals and GP's still can't talk to each other, ridiculous!

Grandmadinosaur I am sorry to cause offence, and I am sure that your friend DOES do what you say and being on an Oncology Ward is probably more compassionate, BUT in the last 2 decades I have had 24 surgeries, a lot of them major ones and I have seen a great deal of what the 'caring profession' CAN be like, although there are exceptions everywhere obviously!

BeEmerald - thanks for your support! Exactly, and it could be that they are like that because of the pressures of the job, but would I want someone administering my medication when they've just had a swig of Vodka, or sniffed a bit of Coke to keep them going in the sluice? NO THANKS!

My last admission was to a Covid Ward - none of us had it but because we coughed a bit at some point ended up in there. The poor old dear opposite me couldn't do anything at all for herself, even move anything but her hands just a little - it was ME that gave her a drink, reminded staff that just left a tray at the end of the bed then someone else picked it up 30 mins later that she hadn't been fed, closed the curtains for her when the sun was streaming onto her face, and pulled the covers up over her when she was shivering - it was appalling! Weekends we didn't even get our water jugs filled and changed as there wasn't enough staff, hot drinks at weekends were sporadic too. My medication was taken out of my bag without my permission, went missing and when I needed it had to wait 2 days to get it written up by a DR and come up from from Pharmacy. They even missed my cancer that even I, an untrained radiographer could see on a CT Scan! I could and have gone on, but my complaints always come back full of lies and apologies and their policies have been reviewed etc, but nothing ever changes ..... in 2010 it was just getting to be good. I was hoping that with Doris's dice with death and the clapping for the pandemic that the Govt wouldn't be able to get away with flogging it off, but as was their plan, it has got so bad that we will accept anything now .....

icanhandthemback

*Glorianny*, it is not out of date at all. I live between the borders and can assure you that everything I have reported has happened very recently. I am having a load of hospital tests repeated because the hospitals cannot see the records as my GP uses a different system; the hospital in the next county cannot see them. The ambulance that didn't turn up was 3 weeks ago, the ambulance that did where I sat and talked about the waste with the crew who couldn't take my mother to hospital was last week. The GP who they spoke to in one county that they served couldn't see the records of my Mother in the County where my GP is. I have no reason to lie about this. It is our experience.
The Paramedic's experience with the purchase of a new ambulance fleet with a different Marque where all the storage had to refitted in a less accessible place because the previous bespoke designed storage didn't fit the new Marque was within the last 3 years. His many other tales were recent.
Yes, I use the NHS App, it doesn't hold complete records. I can also report that much of mine is missing!

One of the real problems with GPs is that they are not part of the NHS system they are independent businesses. It isn't the fault of the NHS because your GP has chosen not to conform
There is a difference between GPs and Hospital Trusts you know,
As for new ambulances I would imagine refitting them is an ongoing process and they constantly need updating.

Lido I don’t care if I’m treated by someone who is purple with yellow spots. Providing that hospital employee knows their stuff (and has the requisite certificates to prove it) then we’re good to go. A ‘diversity and inclusiveness’ manager adds zero to the outcome. Hospitals need staff. People apply for jobs & bingo! There’s your match, right there.

Urmstongran

Lido I don’t care if I’m treated by someone who is purple with yellow spots. Providing that hospital employee knows their stuff (and has the requisite certificates to prove it) then we’re good to go. A ‘diversity and inclusiveness’ manager adds zero to the outcome. Hospitals need staff. People apply for jobs & bingo! There’s your match, right there.

Sorry Urmstongran, I know you feel people have been getting at you all day, but when you post such uninformed, short sighted and blatantly wrong nonsense you shouldn't be surprised. Time to move into the 21st century.

Enlighten me then please volver instead of disagreeing with me. Why am I wrong on this?

People apply for jobs & bingo

This is a massive oversimplification of a complex and important process being carried out daily in a competitive and difficult and often highly specialised employment market.

Attraction, selection, recruitment, appointment, induction, training, motivation, engagement, measurement, development, succession planning, reward.......I could go on.

You don't value Diversity Managers Urmstongran as you have no idea what they do. Do you really think the NHS employ people from an ad in the local paper, 150 people apply and they pick one and point them at their uniform?

Do you really think the NHS employ people from an ad in the local paper, 150 people apply and they pick one and point them at their uniform?

That’s what used to happen, pretty much Lido.
Seems okay to me now too.

Why is everything so bluddy complicated (and expensive) nowadays? Who cares what ‘percentages of people’ are represented? What’s wrong with ‘the best candidate for the job’?

Urmstongran

Enlighten me then please volver instead of disagreeing with me. Why am I wrong on this?

Given this after your posts about not employing translators and making sure patients under stand the medical staff dealing with them I think you have answered your own question Urmstongran
Translators are not simply for people who don't speak English one of the biggest requirements is for people who can sign so that deaf patients receive the same service the rest of us do.
Diversity, inclusion and equality mean everyone receives the care they need and staff are aware of all that may entail. It means we have a health service that is staffed by all sorts of people, serves everyone and is able to adapt to their needs. Why wouldn't you want that?

Because Lido has clearly explained the role and importance of a Diversity Officer and you have completely dismissed it and tried to say you know better based on no knowledge at all. On top of that you have dismissed serious research because it was written by people whose credentials you disparage because they are not doctors or nurses so you think they don't know what they are talking about.

You are not credible. Like MaizieD, I'm not playing any more.

I don’t care if I’m treated by someone who is purple with yellow spots.

But the NHS does. They want the right person for the job, with the skills and qualification necessary....and if the person who can or will do the job is purple with yellow spots then the NHS want to make sure they can attract, engage with, motivate and treat that person fairly and well or you and others won't be getting treated.

Attraction, selection, recruitment, appointment, induction, training, motivation, engagement, measurement, development, succession planning, reward.......I could go on

Please don’t.
It’s depressing me.

What about ‘advert, check cv, offer interview, select candidate, start work’?

volver

Because Lido has clearly explained the role and importance of a Diversity Officer and you have completely dismissed it and tried to say you know better based on no knowledge at all. On top of that you have dismissed serious research because it was written by people whose credentials you disparage because they are not doctors or nurses so you think they don't know what they are talking about.

You are not credible. Like MaizieD, I'm not playing any more.

That should be a future stance for all of us with a modicum (or more) of integrity. Arrant nonsense original posts should warrant a zero response.

Nope. I’ve read over the last few posts and I’m not buying it.