I think flat faced dogs should be banned

I do a lot of walking on the streets and in the park - I immediately know if one of these dogs is behind me as you can hear that terrible breathing.

I've noticed an increase in British bulldogs - some of them are gross, wheezing and snuffling and with such wide barrel-shaped bodies that they can barely walk.

A couple of years back I heard a vet on the radio say he wanted to ban further breeding, saying that when these pets are anaesthetized and intubated their gums instantly turn pink, from black, simply because they're getting enough oxygen!

Like Doodle and Iam, my last dog was a Doodle and was absolutely the best dog I have ever had. He had 14 years with us, only ever saw a vet for vaccinations, was the most chilled boy and yes, he did moult. He was gentle around cats, children and chickens. Over the years I've had Border Collies, a Great Dane, Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and mongrels. The Doodle was absolutely, hands down, the easiest. I know lots of people with Doodles of all descriptions and the qualifying factor for most badly behaved Doodles is an owner who doesn't train consistently.

. . . the qualifying factor for most badly behaved Doodles is an owner who doesn't train consistently.

Absolutely. And this is true of absolutely any type of dog.

It's immoral to breed dogs that are inevitably going to suffer due to the breeder's choice of traits. It is aso immoral to buy dogs from breeders who breed such animals.

Flat faces(i.e. deformed jaws), pop eyes, elongated spines, bad hip joints, heart diseases, blindness and deafness are all due to immoral breeding of animals. Why can such breeders still work within the law?

I googled dogs fir people with allergies and a breed called the Xolo came up. It’s a Mexican hairless dog and quite fascinating. Into an ancient breed that lived with tribes; multifunctional. The article said that if all dogs just became mongrels and bred with each other they would eventually look like Xolos albeit ( I assume) with hair. The tribes revered them as they were thought to take you to the afterlife. The breeder in the video said potential owners had to be vetted very carefully as the dogs virtually know not just what you’re thinking but what you’re going to think and are very wilful. But what I’m trying to say is the Xolo is the complete opposite of Frenchies although they did introduce Min Pins at one time (and another breed but I forget what it was) .

I will be in a minority here but I don't think we have the right to breed and own animals for our amusement.

Animals should exist in their wild state or not at all. Humans have done them so much damage, we should hang our heads in shame.

What do you think about guide dogs HettyBetty. They are obviously not owned for amusement but they have to be bred. I have never owned a pet for amusement, nor have I ever bought one.

Have to agree with everything GSM says. The KC sets the standards and it’s easy to look at Victorian pictures of various breeds and see how that standard has been changed. My late DH was on the KC committee for (proper) working dogs where ability was more important than appearance.

HettyBetty

I will be in a minority here but I don't think we have the right to breed and own animals for our amusement.

Animals should exist in their wild state or not at all. Humans have done them so much damage, we should hang our heads in shame.

Wolves/Dogs chose to live with man because they realised they would benefit from it. What you’re wishing for is for them to not exist at all. Which is the basis of what PETA believes I think.

HettyBetty

I will be in a minority here but I don't think we have the right to breed and own animals for our amusement.

Animals should exist in their wild state or not at all. Humans have done them so much damage, we should hang our heads in shame.

Yes, because that has worked well for other animals.

Doodledog

MissAdventure

It should be illegal to own them, full stop.
Never mind insurance, what about quality of life for the dog?

And what would you do with the existing dogs if it were illegal to own them?

Insurance is not the solution, but at least the dogs would be protected until the breathing problems could be bred out. A surprising number of owners don't have insurance and the dogs have to be destroyed or live with the conditions.

It's not just brachycephalic dogs that have problems. Since dogs have had to be chipped, and people can be fined for letting them roam, there are far fewer 'mongrels' - pretty much all pet dogs are pedigree now, so problems are bred into them. I agree that Frenchies are at the top of the scale for problems, but spaniels, labradors and many other breeds have issues too. I'm not sure what the answer is, as it's unlikely that we will go back to the days of seeing dogs wandering the streets to 'meet' other ones and produce the crossbreeds that used to represent most family pets. They just don't exist in any numbers now. Rescue centres make it so difficult to get dogs, too, and not everyone is able to take on a dog with problems caused by previous owners. It's a mess, really.

I remember those wandering dog days.....also the common and frequent practice of drowning unwanted puppies in a bucket of warm water.

I remember those wandering dog days.....also the common and frequent practice of drowning unwanted puppies in a bucket of warm water.

?

Yes, and the piles of poo on every street corner.

Ot doesnt have to be one or the other though, does it?
Although, frankly, if a dog needed multiple ops and interventions and was struggling to breathe at the end of its life span, then putting it to sleep may be considered the kindest thing to do.

Ot doesnt have to be one or the other though, does it?

It does if you want to reintroduce mongrels. They were 'love children' of street-corner liaisons between wandering dogs who weren't neutered. They just won't exist unless we go back to that. When owners interfere in the breeding process they are only going to let their dogs mate with the same breed (in-breeding) or with another breed that produces compatible cross-breed puppies - why would they do otherwise? Short of 'banning' dogs altogether, those are the choices, really.

That sounds like an ideal solution.
2 owners cross breeding their dogs on the basis of health, behaviour and other factors.

Nothing wrong with that, at all.

I did actually buy a GSD puppy 12 weeks old from such a breeder. She wanted her GSD bitch to have one litter before spaying. she chose a fine local dog who enjoyed playing football with children. My other GSDs were rescues. None has been a badly made dog and all have had great natures.

I hate to think some of these highly sensitive dogs are kept as breeding machines.

Cross breeding, inbreeding are all fine.
Breeding animals that are unable to go about life easily, isn't.

MissAdventure

That sounds like an ideal solution.
2 owners cross breeding their dogs on the basis of health, behaviour and other factors.

Nothing wrong with that, at all.

But that is how you get cockapoos and labradoodles. You can’t please everyone I suppose ?

Cockapoos and labradoodles don't suffer the same physical health issues though as pugs, do they?

There are far too many puppies. I wish breeding for sale could be tightly regulated. I have said before that I would like castration of male dogs to be mandatory unless owned by a licensed breeder. Looking tentatively online at local kennels for another rescue GSD, so many are heartbreakingly young. A great many lockdown puppies I expect, and of course now people have difficulty finding the money to look after a dog properly.

I wouldn't object to a 'licensed breeder only' policy; but if the number of puppies reduced it would push the prices up even more.

I would like to see it made compulsory to have decent veterinary insurance. I appreciate that it would make pet ownership too expensive for people on limited income though, and that for many older people a pet is a lifeline. Maybe there could be a levy on pet insurance so that older people could get free or subsidised treatment for things like dentistry that aren't life-threatening but cause pain for the animals.

'Licensed breeder' usually means puppy farm and why would I want insurance for my dogs when they don't need veterinary treatment. If they do ever need treatment I will pay for it. Also insurance won't pay out for existing conditions which covers most of the issues mentioned. If they're born with it surely it's pre-existing.

Puppy farms are not licensed breeders FF. They are disgusting establishments which exploit dogs until they are no longer capable of breeding. I'm pleased if you are sufficiently well off to pay for whatever veterinary treatment your dogs may need. Unless you have a crystal ball you can't possibly imagine what treatment your dogs may require in the future. They may tear a ligament as one of mine did - I don't take out insurance because I am fortunate to be very well off, but for many uninsured dogs the cost of the operation would have meant they were euthanised. If you opt not to insure your dogs I hope, for their sake, that you have as much in the bank as I do, and are as willing to pay as I am. What if your dogs are run over and need expensive surgery? Will you just write them off?

My daughter’s dog has had well over £10k’s worth of surgery - maybe nearer £15k. Luckily she had comprehensive insurance (and no, congenital conditions don’t count as pre-existing if the have not been diagnosed at the time the insurance is taken out - no insurance would be worth having if that were the case). She had to pay the excess each time, but it was a fraction of the cost of the bill.

I agree puppy farms are disgusting and should be banned except they are licenced by councils all over the country. Judgemental much or what? why assume I can't afford to treat my dogs or be willing to spend whatever it takes to keep them alive and well. I've had many dogs over the years and usually in multiples as I believe they are happier with a dog companion. Don't insult me because I happen to know how to recognise a puppy farm and am fully aware that licencing breeders does not in any way prove them to be reputable.